LeoVince

Power, noise, mapping, price, and the ever popular : "More power or just noise?"
Bootworks
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LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Fri May 06, 2011 2:52 am

It's only been a couple of weeks since I got the '11 SMT and due to the 620 miles-to-service I ended up taking the Brutale on the recent 1200 mile NorCal tour...Still, now the SMT has a little over 800 miles and it's time for some farkles. This bike has loosened up quite a bit and it's so competent that a complete catanoscopy will not be necessary...I don't even want to have to remap, it's so sweet as it is. But it needs a more virile bark, not necessarily for volumes' sake, just a baritone that better reflects its true character.

The Akros, while I'm sure they're worth it, are astronomically priced. The JC's were next, sent an inquiry which was never responded to. If I were in the U.K. that certainly would be a fine choice. But being in the San Francisco Bay Area the next logical choice was to deal with LeoVince U.S.A., which is (relatively) in my back-yard. A quick email to the technical director, Manny, an overnight response. Their website fitment guide only lists applications for the 'R', but he stated a number of 'T' owners have purchased and installed these "and due to the lack of complaints" he assumes they're a cross-fit. Problem is they're working on a new website and the '7546A' listed has been discontinued...And replaced with #8414, (Alum, list: US$729). In stock, ready to ship. I pulled the trigger today, hope to report next week when installed.

Here's the clip Manny sent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAWE6jo1IL0

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Re: LeoVince

Post by katum_smt » Sat May 07, 2011 11:54 am

I have the Leo Vince SBK cans on my SMT
I like them - although even with the db buster in they are still a bit on the loud side
Also had the stealer do the remap (think they used the Akra map) and this made a big difference
Smoother fueling and throttle response, and revs much more smoothly and quickly
I used to ride normal until I got "oranged" ~ KTM SMT

Currently in the garage
2013 KTM 1190 Adv
2012 MV Agusta Brutale 920
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2010 KTM 990 SMT
1981 Kawasaki Z1000 ELR
1980 Honda CB900F

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Re: LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Sat May 07, 2011 2:37 pm

Good to hear, Katum_SMT. The U.S. LV headquarters is 17 miles away so if they're w-a-y too loud I can always ride up & see if they can tone it down, although I expect the U.S. version (and this new #8414 series) to be a little more subdued, specially since they do not state "race-only", a rarety these days.

The 2011 mapping has been so good I hope these new cans won't alter that. But, as it's often the case one change deserves another and, eventually, I may end up with a Power Commander and an airbox/filter that lets her breathe a little better. Seems every improvement carries a penalty.

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Re: LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Sat May 14, 2011 4:47 pm

Received the cans Thursday night and installed them Friday morning. The kit is complete, down to hardware and a tool to pull the six retaining springs at the couplers. Quality is excellent and the weight difference from the stock system is almost 5 Kg. There are essentially no instructions...in five languages: A small schematic. However, when I called LV to try and identify some mysterious pieces a tech answered on the second ring and answered any questions I had.
They include two disks to restrict the system for E.U. standards. "Toss them", the tech suggested.
Overall, a very simple and straight forward installation. The most challenging part was dis-assembly of the OEM cans to distribution pipes, three 10mm bolts on each side (one of which is awkward to reach) to release the retaining ring.
The #8414 LV cans have a rich baritone, the pipes are substantially larger in diameter and the SMT acts as if liberated. I have not noticed any nasty changes, as promised ("no remapping required", they state), no backfiring and only a pleasant, deep rumble on decel.
The cans have a nice finish without any C/F farkle, just as well since the side heat shields/bag mounts cover them almost completely.
Gone is the Mike Tyson syndrome: A muscular body with an alto whisper. This SMT now has a voice in character to its personality. Totally happy with the results. ;)

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Re: LeoVince

Post by White Knight » Sat May 14, 2011 5:48 pm

Nice review!
Bootworks wrote:Received the cans Thursday night and installed them Friday morning. The kit is complete, down to hardware and a tool to pull the six retaining springs at the couplers. Quality is excellent and the weight difference from the stock system is almost 5 Kg. There are essentially no instructions...in five languages: A small schematic. However, when I called LV to try and identify some mysterious pieces a tech answered on the second ring and answered any questions I had.
They include two disks to restrict the system for E.U. standards. "Toss them", the tech suggested.
Overall, a very simple and straight forward installation. The most challenging part was dis-assembly of the OEM cans to distribution pipes, three 10mm bolts on each side (one of which is awkward to reach) to release the retaining ring.
The #8414 LV cans have a rich baritone, the pipes are substantially larger in diameter and the SMT acts as if liberated. I have not noticed any nasty changes, as promised ("no remapping required", they state), no backfiring and only a pleasant, deep rumble on decel.
The cans have a nice finish without any C/F farkle, just as well since the side heat shields/bag mounts cover them almost completely.
Gone is the Mike Tyson syndrome: A muscular body with an alto whisper. This SMT now has a voice in character to its personality. Totally happy with the results. ;)
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Re: LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:16 am

Today, at 1534 miles I installed a set of Dunlop Q2's: Heading up on tour to the California High Sierras on June 10. Some of the passes are close to 10,000' and, with our heavy snows of 2010-2011, the ski resorts remain open. The Contis, while competent down at our temperate sea level, may not be the best rubber in cold, wet conditions. I expect lots of melting runoff and crud at elevation and, although the OEM Conti tires are wearing well (contrary to some other riders' experience here), it seemed wise to get the Dunlop Q2's on. What does that have to do with the LeoVinces? Well, I don't have a tire machine and I decided to have my local Dealer carry out the work while they complete the 600 mile service (I did the oil/filter change, etc.) and a general safety check.

The tech carrying out the work was asked to check the engine mapping, since the LV cans were in place. I had also recently installed a 'Throttle Tamer', and am using the 300 cam. To the point, he downloaded the latest map and made a couple of minor adjustments. That, the Q2's and the tamer combined delivered quite the joy ride today. To scrub-in the tires I selected a particularly goaty road, 'Morgan Territory Road', a particularly technical road that combines all the elements you could wish for, and demands the best from the rider and his mount. While this '11 SMT was already a joy, competent and willing, the difference after leaving the shop was evident. It remains a 'nervous' bike, meaning that it responds to the most subtle input, but the break-in has loosened up the engine, the gearbox seems more precise, and the throttle response is instantaneous, while still allowing torque down-low to deal with some of the supermoto technique on some of the challenging terrain. The more I ride this bike the greater the understanding of what the designers had in mind and its virtues.

I invested about US$200 in the changes (having brought my own tires from my equipment/spares shed to the party), money well invested.

For riders still of the fence about the SMT, I have to say this bike has been a revelation thus far, and it's quickly becoming a favorite out of the mini-stable. It simply has the sweetest engine, the most forgiving handling, a formidable chassis and the finest brakes. Other than that, it looks 'just average' (Hah!) :lol:

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Re: LeoVince

Post by Ultra54 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:52 pm

You mentioned the the tech "checked" the engine mapping but did he actually change it? I have 4500 km on mine with the Leo's on with the stock map with no complaints. I also have been esperiencing good wear with my Contis.

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Re: LeoVince

Post by kevxtx » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:06 am

I fitted a new set of Leovince pipes tonight.

Results, perfect fit, very well made with good over lapping joints, sound not to loud baffels in, performance bike pulls better up top, bike is now running leaner I know this because I have a wide band commander fitted to my bike & can see A/F ratio in real time. Weight saving of 4.5kgs.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0372224206

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Re: LeoVince

Post by skybullet » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:24 am

Has the replacement of the stock cans improved the throttle on/off jerk or did the addition of the latest map make a difference?

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Re: LeoVince

Post by kevxtx » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:56 am

skybullet wrote:Has the replacement of the stock cans improved the throttle on/off jerk or did the addition of the latest map make a difference?
The jerk is worse with the new cans, it is running leaner with them, going from a A/F ratio of 13.2:1 to around hight 13 / 14:1. But not to worry I am working on my own custom map to improve my ride.

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Re: LeoVince

Post by afaber1 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Thinking of getting some Leovince exhausts but have a couple of questions.
1. Sounds like you don't have to change the mapping, is that correct?
2. Has anyone done a dyno check to see if horsepower and torque increased, stayed the same or what?
3. Did fuel mileage change much?
Much appreciate any info.
FABES

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Re: LeoVince

Post by kevxtx » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:53 pm

[quote="afaber1"]Thinking of getting some Leovince exhausts but have a couple of questions.
1. Sounds like you don't have to change the mapping, is that correct? The A/F ratio does run leaner with the Leovince pipes but is in a safe range, you would get better results with a richer fuel map.
2. Has anyone done a dyno check to see if horsepower and torque increased, stayed the same or what? I have a before standard dyno run & will do a compassion run with the pipes sometime.
3. Did fuel mileage change much? No seems to be around the same for me, I have since played with my mapping to correct this.

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Re: LeoVince

Post by afaber1 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:43 pm

Thanks kevxtx. When you do the dyno run with the Leovince pipes please let me know what you find.
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Re: LeoVince

Post by afaber1 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:36 am

Would the other lucky 2011 owner from door county with the LeoVince exhausts please contact me, I have a few questions.
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Re: LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:36 am

Just switched 'Throttle-Tamer' cam to the X400 and installed some 'Vibranators'.

Only 1800 miles on the odo, bike is down while waiting on the custom saddle. With the Q2 tires, Gobi sidebags, and 'Clearwater' Glenda lights, I'm expecting the redone 'Sargent' saddle next Tuesday (shipped back today.)

A small tail T-Bag, and I'm ready to meet Dave Moss to have him carry out an expert suspension setup. With two other riders we'll be tearing up all the beautiful goaty roads of the San Francisco Peninsula on Friday 7/15 as a last check. Then on 7/21 my '11 SMT & I will launch on her maiden voyage, 3.500 miles of the most beautiful motorcycle roads in the American and Canadian NorthWest. Don't quite know if the Scottoiler eSystem will be on board yet (ordered April 28, backordered), if not I'll just pack a can. The LeoVince slipons have proven to be the right decision so far. Can't wait to ride this bike on those roads, setup as I think she ought to be. ;)

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Re: LeoVince

Post by kevxtx » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:37 am

Was back on the dyno this morning for a quick run to see the gains with the Leo's. There were gains every where in HP & Torque across the whole rpm range. Not bad for a low end cost set of pipes. I would like to see someone do a before & after dyno runs with other brands to see the gains against cost of the pipes, we would soon see if spending double the price is worth the money.

I now have a new base run for the DNA air boxes which should be with me in a week or two so I will be able to see the exact gains from the air boxes, I have ordered all 3 versions to test &to see which one will suit my bike best.

All three runs below are on the same bike, using the same dyno & using the exact same brand / RON rated fuel. The test was with my completely standard SMR running the standard fuel map with O2 sensors tuned off, against my SMR with Leovince pipes & Y piece, baffles in with the Akro map loaded.

Below run shows the HP gain with the Leovince cans.

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Below run shows the Torque gains, these pipes do improve the mid range grunt & it shows nicely on the sheet below.

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I added this one encase someone wanted to see the A/F ratio, I will need to pull some fuel off around the 7000 100% throttle mark & should gain some more torque & HP.

Top graph = A/F ratio, bottom graph = HP

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Re: LeoVince

Post by afaber1 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:42 pm

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks a million kevxtx! Glad to see both a hp and torque increase at all rpms. So are you going to tweak the apro mapping a bit around the 7000 rpm range? Is that something a KTM dealer can do or else I think I will just have them download the apro mapping when I get my LeoVince pipes and leave it at that?
Thanks again and I am going to place my LeoVince order on monday!
FABES

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Re: LeoVince

Post by kevxtx » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:47 pm

afaber1 wrote:Exactly what I was looking for, thanks a million kevxtx! Glad to see both a hp and torque increase at all rpms. So are you going to tweak the apro mapping a bit around the 7000 rpm range? Is that something a KTM dealer can do or else I think I will just have them download the apro mapping when I get my LeoVince pipes and leave it at that?
Thanks again and I am going to place my LeoVince order on monday!
I am able to adjust the fueling myself through Tune ECU, I have made suttle changes to the Akro map to get a closer A/F ratio of 13.2:1 with my Wind band data logger to suit the Australian fuels. The problem most don't seem to realize is every bike is different & every countries fuels have different blends & burn rates. I did dyno tests last year & proved on a XT660X that different Ron rated fuels change the A/F ratio. I built a perfect map using 95 Ron fuel on the dyno at 13.2:1 then drained & retested within 15 min using 98 Ron fuel & the A/F ratio changed by 0.5:1 richer, so if the map is set to 13.2:1 on 95 Ron fuel & then 98 is used the A/F ratio will be 12.7:1 which is to rich. The 91 Ron fuel ran the leanest out of all 3 Rons.

So the moral of the story is a fuel map might be close to ones setup but it will be far from perfect. A custom made fuel map is the only way to tune a bike correctly. I know when I have run built fuel maps on Australian fuel they are all to rich by 10 to 20 %. The USA & UK maps seen to be close to each other.

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Re: LeoVince

Post by Bootworks » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:18 am

skybullet wrote:Has the replacement of the stock cans improved the throttle on/off jerk or did the addition of the latest map make a difference?
Just got off the road recently, an 8 day trip that spent a set of Q2's (just replaced with PR3's). Had the dealer do a 7,500 km service (at 9650 km, bike running great) and confirmed that the Akro map had been loaded prior to the trip when we installed the Dunlop Q2's. With the ThrotleTamer (x400 cam), the LeoVince cans and the Akro map, this '11 is as sweet as it comes. "The Duck's Nuts", as an Aussie fellow rider is fond of saying!. Had Dave Moss do his magic on the suspension setup, and the PR3's so far are like Velcro, just lovin' the entire package! Specially enjoy the arched eyebrows, many riders don't have a clue, and they ask: "Just...what IS that?" :lol:

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Re: LeoVince

Post by phanson » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:48 am

kevxtx wrote: I am able to adjust the fueling myself through Tune ECU, I have made suttle changes to the Akro map to get a closer A/F ratio of 13.2:1 with my Wind band data logger to suit the Australian fuels. The problem most don't seem to realize is every bike is different & every countries fuels have different blends & burn rates. .
Kevxtx,

I agree that every KTM LC8 is certainly different - more different than makes sense sometimes, I think you (or someone on here) identified up to 40% difference in ignition timing - what the hell is that all about?
That's not the question however - you mention going for an exhaust air:fuel ratio of 13.2:1 - isn't that a bit on the rich side, wouldn't 13.5:1 be much different? And what sort of mpg do you get (or is it km to the litre / litres per 100km's over there?)

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