MTC failure

DaveW
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MTC failure

Post by DaveW » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:01 pm

I had a MTC failure come up on my dash.
This is not the first time ,as ive has the servo motor replaced last April.
Thinking it was the same issue i took the bike into the local ktm shop in Invercargill (thats at the bottom of the South Island for you over seas ppl) at the Burt Munro.
Anyway they were all over me a great help on a friday afternoon.Setting up the computor and yes telling me that its a servo issue.

Great, as I was heading home the next morning 650km ride though some fantastic high country passes ...in limp mode !!!

Also, a three week delay to get a new servo from Austria.. Great ...no F#@K it

Anyway the next morning i was showing a mate and we noticed a loose nut on the exhaust end of the cable. We tightened it up, started the bike and guess what?
The MTC Failure had gone :lol: It was a relief phew......
The cable was not under tension and this is what caused the issue

Something to keep an eye out next time. I will also advise the KTM dealer of our finding.As they didn't do a physical check of anything.Just relying on the computer...

The engine light was still on(no warning on MTC) and after a coffee at out first stop the engine light was gone.

So no limp mode home :D :D :D

Had a great time at the Burt. Well worth the 1960km round trip.


cheers
DaveW
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Re: MTC failure

Post by Aussie Dave » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm

Cheers DaveW....... Great report......funny how everybody goes to the Ipad first before doing the 'look for a cause' .... ;)

Prob should've labelled the post "MTC failure - simple fix" . Anyway, well spotted! 8-)
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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveNZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:10 am

DaveW wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:01 pm
I had a MTC failure come up on my dash.
This is not the first time ,as ive has the servo motor replaced last April.
Thinking it was the same issue i took the bike into the local ktm shop in Invercargill (thats at the bottom of the South Island for you over seas ppl) at the Burt Munro.
Anyway they were all over me a great help on a friday afternoon.Setting up the computor and yes telling me that its a servo issue.

Great, as I was heading home the next morning 650km ride though some fantastic high country passes ...in limp mode !!!

Also, a three week delay to get a new servo from Austria.. Great ...no F#@K it

Anyway the next morning i was showing a mate and we noticed a loose nut on the exhaust end of the cable. We tightened it up, started the bike and guess what?
The MTC Failure had gone :lol: It was a relief phew......
The cable was not under tension and this is what caused the issue

Something to keep an eye out next time. I will also advise the KTM dealer of our finding.As they didn't do a physical check of anything.Just relying on the computer...

The engine light was still on(no warning on MTC) and after a coffee at out first stop the engine light was gone.

So no limp mode home :D :D :D

Had a great time at the Burt. Well worth the 1960km round trip.


cheers
DaveW
4000Ks for us Dave, and no issues other than a new set of M7RRs being worn out (2017 1290R), and a stop at KTM Nelson who were great. Man the road to Milford is insane, and 2 rides over the Tataka hill was fun.
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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:58 am

What a great backdrop there Dave NZ
I bet you guys are having a buzz.from the Takaka Hill down though Haast Pass and then over the Cardrona to QT
You can imagine 10 of us weaving in and out heading down there other side after lunch and a Good George craft beer 🍻
It's another world though the Homer Tunnel.amazing place 👍
Weather is holding out for you too.🌞

I'm having issues uploading photos from my phone.Keeps failing to load ?

Cheers DaveW
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 pm

Came off the freeway today, and turned into a parking lot. As I rolled to a near stop, I got an MTC Failure. Then the bike died. I tried to start it again, but it wouldn't. I waited may be 10 minutes and it started and I rode it to the KTM dealer. They were going to need to put it on the machine but wasn't available immediately. I will be going in tomorrow morning, but in the meantime, I will go check my nuts! :oops:

DaveW, when you got the MTC Failure, did the bike die? Or is the MTC Failure and the bike dieing unrelated?
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 pm

Hi jfink
No the bike didn't die.
When I started up the like (in the morning) it started fine then the mtc flashed on dash.if I scrolled though the menu it disapared but did come up in the fault section.
And found to be a loose nut on the arm at exhaust end.
Hopefully the dealer will sort for you
Keep us posted...the more info will help others solve any minor issues.

Good luck

Cheers Dave W
2006 supermotard 950 , 2008 superduke 990, 2016 1290GT

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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:09 pm

DaveW wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 pm
Hi jfink
No the bike didn't die.
When I started up the like (in the morning) it started fine then the mtc flashed on dash.if I scrolled though the menu it disapared but did come up in the fault section.
And found to be a loose nut on the arm at exhaust end.
Hopefully the dealer will sort for you
Keep us posted...the more info will help others solve any minor issues.

Good luck

Cheers Dave W
Will do! Thanks.
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:24 am

Took it to the Dealer yesterday. I was surprised by how long they spent on it. The only error code they found was a U1709 code??? They told me it's a failure of the lighting system? May have happened due to low voltage, after the engine died and I tried to restart it. The technician said he could not understand how a lighting error would cause the bike to die. I agree. They want to ride it with a data logger, to see if any codes are thrown while running. I will take it back next week.
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:41 pm

I believe they found the problem that caused my MTC Failure.

BACKGROUND
After clearing the error code, they told me to bring it back in so they could diagnose. Instead, I went for a ride last week. On the way home I could not keep it running, when I stopped for lights. And almost couldn't get it restarted. Took it straight to the shop, and like all great automotive problems when I got to the dealer, it idled and started fine. At the first stop light on the way home, it died and struggled to start again. Turned around, went back and fortunately I was able to demonstrate the problem. Fast forward to this morning ...

FINDINGS
They pulled the spark plugs and found that both the front plugs had made contact with the piston head. WTF!!! The tang on one plug had been broken off and the other had been smashed against the electrode. I have never heard of this unless the wrong plugs were installed or a rod bearing had come loose. They have talked with KTM, it's covered under warranty, but I have asked to see it when they get it torn down. May be I can get some photos and post them here. More to come ...
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveNZ » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:11 pm

Oh fuck Jfink, thats sucks, it sounds like the wrong plugs, (possibly) but how the hell did they find there way into the bike.
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:36 pm

DaveNZ wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:11 pm
Oh fuck Jfink, thats sucks, it sounds like the wrong plugs, (possibly) but how the hell did they find there way into the bike.
After seeing the picture I am not completely bought into the diagnosis. Here's a picture of the plugs.

Image

The one on the right is the one missing the tang, but it looks to me like the remnant would still be down as far as the tang itself. Then, the one on the left was supposedly bent closer to the electrode, which may be true or it may be corroded? I don't know, I just hope they figure it out to my satisfaction. I really don't want to be riding and have it screw up again. Especially if I keep it longer than the warranty.
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveNZ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:17 am

Doesn't look like they have hit the piston, just looks like the plugs have just failed, maybe crap made, they also look very sooty, was the bike running rich? because these bikes run very lean for E4. hope they remove that missing piece of tag.
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:48 am

DaveNZ wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:17 am
Doesn't look like they have hit the piston, just looks like the plugs have just failed, maybe crap made, they also look very sooty, was the bike running rich? because these bikes run very lean for E4. hope they remove that missing piece of tag.
I still suspect the valves. Leaky exhaust, extra, extra lean, causing the spark plugs to get super hot and the tang to break. That's my theory, because honestly I have never heard of the piston contacting the spark plug without something catastrophic happening. I do agree with you though, they have got to get that extra metal out of the cylinder.

They said they got permission from KTM to tear the thing down. And that the KTM rep called back to ask if they had it done yet. Sounds like KTM is just as curious as I am.
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by DaveW » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:10 am

Hey jfink
I hope they sort it for you and find the end piece from the spark plug?
Hopefully there is no internal damage (I can't see the pix)
Typical when your bike wouldn't start and it ran in the shop!!!
What's there indication of a time frame. Hopefully KTM will put the acid on the dealer and you get a outcome to your expectation 👍

Good luck
🍻 Dave W
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:40 am

DaveW wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:10 am
Hey jfink
I hope they sort it for you and find the end piece from the spark plug?
Hopefully there is no internal damage (I can't see the pix)
Typical when your bike wouldn't start and it ran in the shop!!!
What's there indication of a time frame. Hopefully KTM will put the acid on the dealer and you get a outcome to your expectation 👍

Good luck
🍻 Dave W
Thanks Dave W,

The bike always ran a little rough based on my comparison to a friends SDGT. But it pulled strong. I had ridden the bike about 200 miles the day this happened. It was only about the last 20 miles where it started acting up. But, as I mentioned earlier, I had gotten a MTC Failure fault about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Since then, the bike would die at idle, but only occasionally. When this happened I just thought I was going to go through the same routine, 'act up', 'take it to shop', 'fix itself', 'repeat'. I can't really point to the time when it was clear that the spark plug dropped the tang. Obviously it was running on the one 'working' plug for some time. Whether that was the day when it finally died or sometime before, I couldn't really say.

Really, not knowing what happened, my preference for outcome would be:
1) a new bike
2) a new motor in my bike
3) a total top end rebuild
4) a visual inspection by me, where I could see no top end, connecting rod damage
5) 'it's ok' ride it for a while
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by Superdave99 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:46 pm

That bites j.... hope it's all good... is that yours at csn (shack north)?

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Re: MTC failure

Post by jjscsix » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:31 pm

Joe, I’m not sure why but I can’t see the picture. Could you e-mail it to me? I’m with you in that it’s hard for me to imagine the piston hitting the spark plug. I assume you know where the bike was originally bought, maybe even the same place you bought it. Have you contacted them to see if they have service records? I know it was low miles, but something just isn’t adding up.
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:18 pm

More pictures from the darkside! No idea how this happened yet, but mechanic (Dan) is convinced it occurred due to pre-ignition.

Cylinder Wall Scouring:
Image

More scouring on cylinder wall, opposite the scouring above:
Image

Broke ring lands, scraper ring was also broken:
Image

Small indentation on Cylinder Head (right center):
Image

They have not contacted KTM yet, so no news on what happens next.
Last edited by jfink on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MTC failure

Post by jfink » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:22 pm

jjscsix wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:31 pm
Joe, I’m not sure why but I can’t see the picture. Could you e-mail it to me? I’m with you in that it’s hard for me to imagine the piston hitting the spark plug. I assume you know where the bike was originally bought, maybe even the same place you bought it. Have you contacted them to see if they have service records? I know it was low miles, but something just isn’t adding up.
Jim, I am not sure why pictures from Google work sometimes and don't work sometimes with some people. I will send you the most interesting picture of all of them, which is the cracked ring lands on the piston. For this to happen, it had to take quite a beating.
Last edited by jfink on Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe

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Re: MTC failure

Post by jjscsix » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:32 am

Just responded to your e-mail. That bike was abused as an infant before you adopted it. That's my opinion.
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