Track Days on a SD-GT

AllanP
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Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:09 am

Has anyone done a trackday on a SD-GT yet?

I just booked a one day for July at the Circuit of the Americas in Austin, Texas. It would not be my first choice of circuit, but its in my home town which makes getting there and back easy and I will probably just ride the bike there. They also have covered air conditioned pits which will make a big difference to an old guy like me in the Texas summer heat. I've never ridden this GP circuit before and its really too fast for my level of talent on what is really an upright naked bike with a windshield, but it should be fun.

My main reason for going is to try to develop a better understanding and hopefully a bit more confidence in the semi-active suspension. I've never ridden a bike with this technology before and it feels very "busy" to me which I think masks the feel from the tires on the road. This might just be a lack of familiarity or confidence and a track is a much safer place to experiment with it than public roads.

If anyone has done a trackday or has any thoughts or observations about the SD-GT for this I'd love to hear them.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by DaveNZ » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:19 am

Ive done 12 trackways on my ex 1290R Allan, you may be the first, and the guinea pig, What suspension setting, is going to be the question. Sports mode is quite soft for a track day, but sports with luggage may be the way to go, it tends to give less rear rider sag, and hopefully the Reb, and Comp are upped a little also, maybe even 2 people and luggage will be best. I'm looking forward to your findings Allan. :mrgreen:
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2016 1290GT-remus link and muffler, 2010 Black 1200 Multistrada full Termi system with mapping, 2005 SMR 640, full Titanium system, Mikuni flatside racing carb, 2 sets of wheels, 18 litre tank, and a nice soft seat.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:02 am

As you suggested I've been using our few good local roads to test running the bike with sport damping and one-rider+ luggage and also sport damping with the two-rider setting.

This is fairly time consuming because I wanted to try a variety of road surfaces and compare the new settings with single rider set up on the same day, but its definitely promising. The bike turns into a corner much better and seems to exit better too although I can't hammer it nearly as hard on the exit on worn Angel GT's and no run-off as I would on the track. Anyway, I really had a great day doing this and I'm very encouraged.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by Aussie Dave » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:28 am

Cheers Allan, just remember it's a light bike as you said 'a naked with a screen' so it may bounce off a bump whereas a heavier thing might swallow a bump.......and don't forget to lower the tyre pressures to get the last bit of grip out of those Angels.... ;) (they heat up to standard pressures anyway eg my 34f 36r becomes 37f 40r once highway hot.....so track use I can only guess might require 32f & r.....over to trackies for expert advice :)

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:44 pm

With so many other things going on with my bike, I haven't experimented with lower tire pressures yet but the standard recommendations are a one-size-fits-all solution and can't be the optimum for particular situations such as a track. When I take mine to to the track day it'll be wearing sport rubber at least and I was so pleased with the way it turned the other day that I've even considered race rubber. I'm guessing however, that I'll opt for sport rubber such as M7RR, Dunlop Q3 or Pirelli SuperCorsa SP. I'm familiar with the Dunlop and Pirelli tires and I want to use the time to study the bike, not the tires.

Choosing a tire pressure and suspension set up are always time consuming and difficult for me. There is a wealth of knowledge out there about sport bikes and probably the 1290R but little if any about the SP-GT. I'll definitely be running lower pressures but where to start, that's the question. My experience in the US is that the tire reps are reluctant to give track day pressure recommendations for non full-on race tires over the phone. I'll call the track day organizers and see if there will be any tire reps at the event, probably not but its worth asking.

I know several very experienced and fast riders who use a sport-touring tire on the back and a full sport tire from the same manufacturer on the front. I've never done this myself but I can see the logic of matching tire life and keeping the better grip on the front wheel where it's arguably more critical. They put on sport rubber on both wheels for the track day then swap out the rear tire for the equivalent sport touring tire for use on the road. These guys are all in California however where it never rains, but here you also need something which also works in a flood. :D

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by DaveNZ » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:13 am

My last track day allan, i set the tire pressures on the 1290R (M7RRs) at 32F 32R. i possibly could have dropped the rear to 30, but the grip level was very good.
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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by DaveNZ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:30 am

New tires fitted today, the flat tire warning system turned off, an 5 mm more preload added to the rear. stopped for this photo half way home to check how they were scrubbing in, then wound the wick up a bit, and got pinged by the cops and got a ticket for 127K, fuckit, $230 ticket and 35 demerit points fuckit,fuckit,fuckit.
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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by Aussie Dave » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:52 am

Holy crap Batman.......35 demerit points........we only have 13 demerits before we have to "show cause", NZ must let you accumulate 100points(?) before they export you across the ditch to the convict settlement...... :lol:
Current delights...1290GT-2017, CBR1100XX-2005

Prev loves...Capo1200TP-014, CBR11xx-002, 2xFZR1000genisis-94, FJ1200-89, FJ1100-84, XS1100P, VF1000F-83, CX500, VF750S, KZ1000J1-81, KZ1000ST-79, CB750F2-77, CB360T-74, CB175.. started it all in 1974 ;)

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by DaveNZ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 am

Aussie Dave wrote:Holy crap Batman.......35 demerit points........we only have 13 demerits before we have to "show cause", NZ must let you accumulate 100points(?) before they export you across the ditch to the convict settlement...... :lol:
Yip 100 points here Dave, the 35 demerit points stay for 2 years, then get wiped, i also had no rego, it had run out a few weeks prior, they let me off that one.
2016 1290GT-remus link and muffler, 2010 Black 1200 Multistrada full Termi system with mapping, 2005 SMR 640, full Titanium system, Mikuni flatside racing carb, 2 sets of wheels, 18 litre tank, and a nice soft seat.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:10 pm

Unlucky about the speeding tickets, they're pretty unforgiving in NZ. I got one in a rental car for 5km over!! That 3 fecking miles per hour, I can walk faster than that!

When you say 5mm more pre-load what exactly are you measuring ?

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by ogden » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 pm

30 front 28 rear is a good starting point for cold pressures if you're taking anything on track. Keep an eye on the tyres and watch for cold or hot tearing, that'll give you an indication of whether the pressure is too low or too high. If the tyres look good with no tearing then your pressures are fine, and that's all that really matters.
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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by DaveNZ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:48 pm

AllanP wrote:Unlucky about the speeding tickets, they're pretty unforgiving in NZ. I got one in a rental car for 5km over!! That 3 fecking miles per hour, I can walk faster than that!

When you say 5mm more pre-load what exactly are you measuring ?
I think the base measure from where your preload starts in each of the modes is raised, so the spring is starting with 5mm of more compression on the spring, i did notice the rear sat a little higher in solo rider mode, but my go to mode is street with 1 rider and luggage.
2016 1290GT-remus link and muffler, 2010 Black 1200 Multistrada full Termi system with mapping, 2005 SMR 640, full Titanium system, Mikuni flatside racing carb, 2 sets of wheels, 18 litre tank, and a nice soft seat.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by Aeor » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:50 pm

It goes hard.
Knee Down.jpg

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:54 pm

DaveNZ wrote:
AllanP wrote:Unlucky about the speeding tickets, they're pretty unforgiving in NZ. I got one in a rental car for 5km over!! That 3 fecking miles per hour, I can walk faster than that!

When you say 5mm more pre-load what exactly are you measuring ?
I think the base measure from where your preload starts in each of the modes is raised, so the spring is starting with 5mm of more compression on the spring, i did notice the rear sat a little higher in solo rider mode, but my go to mode is street with 1 rider and luggage.
That makes sense. I'm also beginning to think that 1-rider+luggage+sport damping is the best set up so far for me too. I've only tried it on the street with Angel GT's but it seems to turn much better, particularly on the brakes and I also like the way it sticks to a line accelerating out of a corner.

This is only out if academic interest but I'd be very interested to know how you think the semi-active suspensions on the SD-GT compares with the conventional suspension on the SD-R?

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:16 pm

Aeor wrote:It goes hard.
Knee Down.jpg
Any observations about bike set up, tires and tire pressures?

I'm likely to go full-on trackday rubber but not slicks and have a while to think about exactly which. Its going to be pretty hot at COTA in July and in the middle of the afternoon its likely to be 90-100F, 34-38C. I won't be using tire warmers, firstly because I don't own any, and secondly because I'm just not fast enough to need them :D

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by Aussie Dave » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:05 am

Cheers Allan.......that's a photo of you in a few weeks eh? (ref Aeor post above)

I'm thinking the dynamic damping isn't necessarily a track star making suspension, more for real roads comfort, but you might find otherwise - usually racers want predictable/consistent settings they can rely on and ride around any shortcomings........it may be that the dynamic algorithym (fek, how do yu spell that?) thingy's might not be written for MotoGP riding....... ;)
Current delights...1290GT-2017, CBR1100XX-2005

Prev loves...Capo1200TP-014, CBR11xx-002, 2xFZR1000genisis-94, FJ1200-89, FJ1100-84, XS1100P, VF1000F-83, CX500, VF750S, KZ1000J1-81, KZ1000ST-79, CB750F2-77, CB360T-74, CB175.. started it all in 1974 ;)

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by AllanP » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:35 pm

Aussie Dave wrote:Cheers Allan.......that's a photo of you in a few weeks eh? (ref Aeor post above)

I'm thinking the dynamic damping isn't necessarily a track star making suspension, more for real roads comfort, but you might find otherwise - usually racers want predictable/consistent settings they can rely on and ride around any shortcomings........it may be that the dynamic algorithym (fek, how do yu spell that?) thingy's might not be written for MotoGP riding....... ;)
When I bought the SD-GT I wanted it as a sporty road bike that was capable of long distances and occasional multi-day trips. I've had a few bugs with mine which hopefully are over now but apart from those it really does work for what I bought it for and I'm really enjoy riding it. It doesn't need to be a track star and besides, going fast is WAY more about the rider than the bike. DaveNS posted a picture of Troy Bayliss a couple of days ago and if he was riding it, it really wouldn't matter what I was riding, all I would see would be his ass disappearing into the distance :D

The multitude of bugs dented my confidence in the bikes reliability but this will come back once those are far enough behind me, but I've never really understood the suspension. Like everyone else, I've read all the claims and think I understand the goal's of the semi-active design, but it mine at least, definitely feels different from high quality conventional suspension. Based on my experience so far with other systems on the bike, I think its natural to wonder if this is this because the suspension on my bike is faulty or not set up right, or just the different characteristics of a new technology that I'll have to adapt too?

I don't need it to be as good as a GP bike but I would like to feel that I understand it better, and the track is the place to find that out. Once I'm confident with it I know from experience it will transform the way I feel and the way I ride the bike. Its also a load of fun!

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by JDS1290SDr » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 am

^^ Id be a little pissed that I cant apply my own settings. Like my 2010 Multi S.
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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by J biker » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:06 pm

You can apply your own settings tbh. Problem is that its within the parameters of load, and comfort/street/sport damping. It doesnt have the fine tuning possibilities that would be ideal and some other systems have. So far my best setting is Sport, 1 rider plus luggage. The bike seems to sit right in the corners with this and turn in etc. is very good. Next fine tuning will probably be trying different tyres and tyre pressures. Im sure this could affect the front feel as well with a less stiff tyre construction.

Puzzles me why they didnt go the same route as the S1000r sport, at least sag could be set to rider weight as a good starting point..

On my 3rd variation active or what ever you want to call system now and while all are very good I dont think they can match quality suspension units with an individual set up. ESA on GS and ESA on S1000, plus the WP active all seem to have a problem at the front if you hit a bump. Its as if it doesnt have time to dial in a softer damping until the 1st irregularity is absorbed. Just my thoughts.

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Re: Track Days on a SD-GT

Post by Aussie Dave » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:53 am

Yeah, if only there was an "Ohlins" setting, then switch over to Dynamic Damping for the long haul home.... :lol:

Still, it does a good job for what I want......and I'll ride around anything it doesn't do well......gotta have something to do while riding.....don't want to fall asleep while the bike does it all for me... ;)
Current delights...1290GT-2017, CBR1100XX-2005

Prev loves...Capo1200TP-014, CBR11xx-002, 2xFZR1000genisis-94, FJ1200-89, FJ1100-84, XS1100P, VF1000F-83, CX500, VF750S, KZ1000J1-81, KZ1000ST-79, CB750F2-77, CB360T-74, CB175.. started it all in 1974 ;)

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