FI light and engine cutting out

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keulk
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FI light and engine cutting out

Post by keulk » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:42 am

Hi all,

My bike : KTM 990 SMT '10 (no ABS) french spec (106ps), in exact factory setting (no ECU tuning, no special pipes, no mod at all except a center stand). 28.000KM, periodic KTM dealer maintenance.

I have read all the possible SMT/LC8/KTM forums looking for someone having the same issue as mine, but even if there seems to be A LOT of engine cutting out issues, I found none to be exactly the same as the one I encounter.

There it is:
- FI light comes on (fixed, not blinking) and the engine cuts out (only the engine, dashboard and lights still working fine)
- FI light stays on for 1/2 a second to around 30 seconds, then gets off, and the engine starts again either by itself if I'm still moving forward with a gear engaged, or by using the starter switch if the bike got stopped in the meantime
- sometimes but not all the time, the engine gets back to life before the FI light gets off...
- can happen riding at any speed, in any condition (air temperature, humidity, cold/warm/boiling engine, straight/curvy road, flat or bumpy pavement)
- having a gear engaged or not doesn't have any influence, same for playing with the clutch lever or the throttle
- it can happen once in 1.000km, or consecutively 10 times in 10 minutes, seems to be totally random
- no error in the ECU log


Probable causes I think have been eliminated:
- fuel pump : brand new since it has been suspected of causing the issue (500€, useless, thank you)
- battery : brand new as well, connections checked (and checked again)
- side stand switch : if I manually put the side stand down while riding, the engine cuts out but no FI light flashes (seems logical) so not the same symptom


I have had the chance to watch this issue happening once while the bike was idle on its side stand, that gave me the opportunity to hear the fuel pump typical startup sound when the FI light went back off. So I think that the issue might be related to some electrical issue with the fuel pump or injection system, but I don't know where and what to look for.

Is there a fuel pump relay? Where is it located? How can I test it?
Any other idea??

I am totally in love with this bike when it's working fine, but completely lost confidence in it because of this single issue which is at the same time frustrating and dangerous, even more when I am riding with my mates. Also completely disappointed by my dealer who has no clue and absolutely no will at all to investigate further...

Thanks a lot for you input!

Keulk

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kevxtx
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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by kevxtx » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:16 am

I would get a Tune ECU cable & let us know what fault codes are logged? Does sound electrical to me, you will need to scan the ECU when the engine light is on.

Try earthing out the neutral light switch to engine earth & ride the bike, this will bypass the side stand switch which we see quite a few problems with on these 990's.

keulk
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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by keulk » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:19 am

Hi Kev,

Unfortunately "no error in the ECU log"
Thanks

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by Rangoonruns » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:54 pm

Side stand switch bypass
Or maybe the immobiliser - if it's this a new ecu will be required off a duke 990
Wish I could help more
Keep us posted on progress


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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by MaLy_OLS » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:58 am

Hi
same problem, same symptoms viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8289
reason - side switch cable - damaged isolation - 2 cm before the socket hidden under plastic cover, short circuit to ground (time to time) , side switch eliminator didn't solve problem
solution - insulating tape ;)

2000 km no problem

keulk
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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by keulk » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:45 am

Hi MaLy_OLS,

I read the description of your issue and as you say it seems to be exactly the same symptoms, which is great because for a lot of people having "engine cutting out" issues, they don't get the FI light at the same time so different issues.

I have been watching and moving this side stand cable in every direction, I have not been able to find any isolation damage, and was not able to replicate the issue while moving it. However I must say that since then I didn't get the engine to cut out anymore, but I did not ride a lot after that (and also touched other cables...).

Was the issue permanently addressed after your insulating tape work?

Thanks.


MaLy_OLS wrote:Hi
same problem, same symptoms viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8289
reason - side switch cable - damaged isolation - 2 cm before the socket hidden under plastic cover, short circuit to ground (time to time) , side switch eliminator didn't solve problem
solution - insulating tape ;)

2000 km no problem

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limeyduffa
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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by limeyduffa » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:37 am

keulk

Just to add another engine cut out issue with solution to the mix:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8383

This is a fairly high current circuit for a communication signal, and fairly prone to cause problems if switch gets wet frequently (IMO). Infact, any engine cut out issue on any bike/model/year... the kill switch is the first thing I would check.

Kev just to clarify your find finding idea to Keulk. When you say neutral light switch, is this the "Gear position sensor" ?. When you say earth it, do you mean earth the blue/green wire (Neutral switch wire) going into the pin of the gear position sensor connector ?

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by Magic Wand » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:59 pm

limeyduffa

Read this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6730&p=44945&hilit ... tch#p44945

You will find the answer there.

/M

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by Motoproponent » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:36 pm

I had a similar issue. I had two problems simultaneously the voltage regulator and the ignition switch.

The tumblers and contactors wore out in the ignition switch. It got to the point where I had to turn the key to "On" and then turn it back towards the "off" position until the detent spring put enough pressure on the contacts to get the ignition sequence to go.

Really long story short I got a new ignition, but in the process of troubleshooting that problem I found my voltage regulator was shot.

Also if you get a new ignition switch*

I got a new ignition key with the new switch, but didn't spring for the whole new lockset so I need the old key for the gas cap and to unlock the seat. If my old key is too close to the ignition when I start the bike, the chip in the old key will fault the security system and the bike wont start.

Do you have a chipped car key on the same key ring as your bike key?
If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by kevxtx » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:29 pm

Take the fuel cap to a lock smith & get them to change the tumblers to match the new ignition key, if they cant do that get a blank key cut for the fuel tank that has no chip.

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by limeyduffa » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:47 am

Motoproponent wrote:...
Thanks for the heads up Motoproponent.

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Re: FI light and engine cutting out

Post by Motoproponent » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:55 pm

kevxtx wrote:Take the fuel cap to a lock smith & get them to change the tumblers to match the new ignition key, if they cant do that get a blank key cut for the fuel tank that has no chip.
I just cut the plastic off the old key and drilled out the chip.

Then,quite by accident, I found the new key and old key we're similar enough that the new key will open the tank and seat lock with a little wiggle.
If you ain't living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.

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