Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Thodoras » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Does anyone have any suggestions about the problem??
I really need to install a topcase and i hate to have to face a broken subframe on a roadtrip...

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Marcelo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:30 pm

Hi, my sugestion is just stop temporaly use all the top case models avoiding the start of the fail or the final damage of sub frame.

I am in contact with my Dealer wating the solution from KTM Austria. We bought ours SMT 09/10 to travel, KTM change the subframe design because they discovered the design was wrong and they try to solve in 011 models and not advised the 09/10 owners.....this is not legal!!!!

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by wildybeast » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:03 am

have contacted KTM UK about the subframe weakness.He deals with ktm warranty issues and told me he has never had a claim against the subframes breaking.I asked him about the 2011 models having the different subframe fitted and he couldnt explain why.If we do have any issues he advised me to contact my dealer.

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by ogden » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:06 am

wildybeast wrote:have contacted KTM UK about the subframe weakness.He deals with ktm warranty issues and told me he has never had a claim against the subframes breaking.
Never had a claim, or never had a successful claim?
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by wildybeast » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:09 am

never had a claim.he knew nothing about the issue or why they have altered the 2011 subframes.

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by ogden » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:17 am

He sounds like a true asset to the business.

I wonder if rancidballbag talked to his dealer when his broke. Mine was quite helpful with the Duke, despite it being geriatric, and took it up with KTM, but they refused to do anything because the service schedule hadn't been followed to the letter by the first owner.

The chap at KTM is kind of right though, in that the dealer is the right point of contact - the Sale of Goods Act trumps the KTM warranty every time.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by k1973 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:48 pm

I have mine fitted with Pelican 1550 side cases on the SW Motech racks. With the racks on, I do not foresee an issue as they help to support the subframe.

However, I only have the racks on when touring. I was actually planning to make a mount on the rack so I could use one of the Pelicans as a topcase around town. But this issue concerns me.

I'll head by my local Austin dealer and pick there brain in the next couple of days. They have been extremely helpful and supportive in the past, so perhaps they will offer some insight.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Marcelo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:46 pm

ogden wrote:
rottenjonny wrote:2011 model has a modified subframe - different P/No.
Good point.

2010 - http://twitpic.com/95ldgf
2011 - http://twitpic.com/960j3h

(2002 Duke - http://twitpic.com/5uhsmk & http://twitpic.com/5t4zgg)
And How is fixed the batery support in the rear part subframe in 2011 model?

in 2010 these ''TOTALY BAD'' holes that fixed the batery support

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Spark01 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:04 pm

Interesting where this is going.
I allready did several big trips with a 15kg roll bag on the tail (total 5-6000km).
But still no problem here
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Thodoras » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:02 pm

[quote="Spark01"]Interesting where this is going.
I allready did several big trips with a 15kg roll bag on the tail (total 5-6000km).
But still no problem here[/qu


I've dane the same plenty of times and i too didn't have any problems...but this way the load is distributed much better and some of it from the guilty holes and to the front of the subframe...i suppose the topcase is too far to the back and too high....just perfect to make the cracking...

I will be researching about strengthening the existing subframe at the stress points...

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Marcelo » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:58 pm

I took apart the sides of my SMT to have access to the subframe on one side and did not find the screw in ''BAD hole'', the hole is oversized. other item found was a crack in the exaust distributor

Mine has 24000km and Im conviced that everyone here who use top case in 2009/2010 models will one day regret the damage due to these holes, and unfortunately have not received any return from KTM who made ​​the wrong design of this subframe
08042012336.jpg

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by rottenjonny » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:58 pm

And How is fixed the batery support in the rear part subframe in 2011 model?
The battery tray is also a new part on the 2011 model as the mounting hole no longer exist. The new one screws through the sides.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Spark01 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Thodoras wrote:
Spark01 wrote:Interesting where this is going.
I allready did several big trips with a 15kg roll bag on the tail (total 5-6000km).
But still no problem here[/qu


I've dane the same plenty of times and i too didn't have any problems...but this way the load is distributed much better and some of it from the guilty holes and to the front of the subframe...i suppose the topcase is too far to the back and too high....just perfect to make the cracking...

I will be researching about strengthening the existing subframe at the stress points...
No the weight is completly on the rear of the subframe.

But there is a differance between a roll bag and top case.
A roll bag lies more steady on his spot and a Top case bounces/wiggles a lot (especially if rubber mounts are used between the subframe and topcase mount)
This bouncing/wiggling causes a lot more stress on a subframe

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by wildybeast » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:20 pm

had a 10mm thick aluminium plate welded in to help support the subframe.heres a couple of pics.Not ideal but i think it will work.

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by ogden » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:51 pm

wildybeast wrote:had a 10mm thick aluminium plate welded in to help support the subframe.
The problem is it's not so much that the subframe can't take the weight, as that the flexing is causing a classic stress fracture. All the plate will do is reduce the flexing a little (and I mean a little) and stop it collapsing completely when the cracks eventually appear, at which point the entire weight will be on the ally plate and that'll go soon after.

You might be lucky though.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Scutty » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:55 pm

Image

I am no engineer (well I am but not a structural one) but I would think the strengthening needed would be around those 4 badly located holes?

More specifically around the 2 to the rear of the subframe.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by ogden » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Scutty wrote:I am no engineer (well I am but not a structural one) but I would think the strengthening needed would be around those 4 badly located holes
The only way to really strengthen those holes is to eliminate them.

I suppose we should at least be grateful they're round, not square, Comet style.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by wildybeast » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:33 pm

ideally like you say the holes need removing or Plating around the frame,or a gusset underneath the holes.It would mean altering the undertray mounting though.Will see how this holds up.

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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by ogden » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:39 pm

wildybeast wrote:ideally like you say the holes need removing or Plating around the frame,or a gusset underneath the holes.
First time the subframe on my Duke broke in this way I had a sleeve welded round the weak spot on each side to strengthen it. Trouble is, you have to drill through the reinforcement to put the holes back where they need to be, putting you right back where you started.

The ultimate fix is (hopefully) exactly what KTM have done with the newer model - the design no longer includes the holes. On the Duke I took a similar approach and filled the holes in (steel rods inside the frame tubes, then filled with weld). Alas I don't know how long the fix lasted because the bike was nicked (again) a few months later.
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Re: Topcase causes the subframe to break..!!

Post by Bug » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:05 pm

So the best fix would be fitting a 2011+ subframe, but would that would also mean replacing the battery box and under tray plastics as well ? As it appears they are also different.
Can anyone confirm ?
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