Loss of power

Squeaky back brake? Hard to control at 30mph/40kph?
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k1973
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Re: Loss of power

Post by k1973 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:40 am

kevxtx wrote:Yes it needs to be modified.

I will post some photo's on how to carry out this mod soon.
Kev,

Did you ever get a chance to document your mods for the tea bag filter?

I'm at the 10k mile mark and will be replacing my filters this week. So would rather save some money rather than spending the $140 at KTM. Already had to order my spark plugs online because no one carries them locally. Other than the KTM dealer, which charges $20.99 per plug. Found them online at at NGKwholesalers for under $8 each. I don't mind supporting local shops and/or dealers, but not willing to spend 2x for shit.
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kevxtx
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Re: Loss of power

Post by kevxtx » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:03 am

Sorry I have not finished off the tea bag mod, the parts are ready for the tea bag modification on my bench, I still need to sorce the OEM in tank paper filter.

May be next time I will use an inline filter & the modified tea bag prefilter.

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This is the tea bag filter I bought below & will sow in the OEM plastic connector from the old filter to the new filter. My idea was to cut the old plactic connector out of the old filter leaving some cloth material all the way around the OEM connector, make a cut in the new filter with just enough room to push the plactic internals into the new filter then stitch up the OEM connector to the new filter, then fit an inline filter & the whole job should cost 20 quide at the most.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Walbro-Tank- ... 3f0d1d9b7b

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k1973
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Re: Loss of power

Post by k1973 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:47 pm

So my plan is to remove the inside paper filter like you have shown and install an inline filter between the tank and the throttle bodies. I've been looking, but like you I have not found a direct fit teabag filter.

I guess one question I have is whether or not the teabag filter is necessary for a street bike that is fueled only at major fuel stations where getting bad fuel is extremely rare?

I know there is always some risk and the teabag filter is there to protect the pump, but it's not like I'm filling up in 3rd World countries with fuel poured out of a bucket. Which is the case for a lot of adventure riders. My SMT always gets the top grade available, and that is 99.9% of the time at a major filling station.
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Re: Loss of power

Post by kevxtx » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:13 am

I would run a pre-filter.

Here you go the Kev tea bag filter mod, this mod will cost you $6.33

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Walbro-Tank- ... 3f0d1d9b7b

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Re: Loss of power

Post by Motiv8 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:50 pm

Thanks for the info. I'm having the same problem on my 2012 with 7000 km on it. First noticed it cutting out at 8k rpm then rapidly got worse after the next 300 km(while on a trip) to the point that the bike would stall in first gear when attempting to accelerate. The only fault code I got was for the 'circuit ignition pulse generator' (FI two short flashes) when the bike would not start. This was intermittent, but the power loss occurred every few seconds and the bike was not rideable. I became a road hazard. The trip ended with a 9 hour tow back home. I'd recommend carrying a spare filter kit or alternate solution.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by kevxtx » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:00 pm

On my next KTM I will fit an inline filter that will be able to do 60000kms on the filter, these small filters are a joke I have never had a bike needing fuel filters with around 7K on the speedo & I have had a few bikes now.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by v2rider » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:27 am

Mine's done it again. I fitted a new filter kit about a year ago, and this morning it started doing the same thing again - lots of revs or lots of throttle and it chokes. Light throttle and/or low revs is fine. I thought I had run it out of fule this morning (slight matter of forgetting whether the fule warning light starts out falshing then goes on solid, or the other way around...), and it stalled a few times but restarted ok. It took 18.4L, which is pretty close to empty but not enough to run out. Came good again with a full tank of fuel, but about 2 hour's riding later it started with the starvation at high throttle opening/revs. Went to dealer to see if I could fit an extra filter inline (forgetting the pump is inside the tank) and was told not to waste my money on a filter kit, it's probably the pump. Seems plausible, but it also seems plausible it's a clogged filter. What do you guys think? I wouldn't mind trying the filter and seeing how it goes, except I'm leaving on Wed am early for a 3000km trip to Philip island for the MotoGP, and I'm really not keen on pushing the bike very far. New fuel pump if it tests sub-par at least gives me some reassurance, and it comes with a filter kit. The assurance is not cheap though, the pump's apparently about $700 in downunderland.

On a similar, sort of related note - I'm going to carry some Chux wipes with me under the seat. If I fill up at an unfamiliar fuel stop I'll pump the fuel through a Chux, then bin the Chux. Yeah, I'll go through a few of them, but you can get a lot of Chux for the price of a fuel filter kit. it also gives me the opportunity if it comes out full of crap to present it to the service station and demand an explanation. Carbed bikes at least gave you a fighting chance with an online filter, but with the fuel pump in the tank you're pretty much screwed unless you pull it out and check it periodically.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by Motiv8 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:28 pm

This follows my last post in August. So after reading this forum I decided I had the same problem and purchased the filter kit. I installed the kit on my own, which seemed relatively easy after learning a few things in the process. The filter installed easily enough(note: the new tea bag fit noticeably more snugly than the old, although I don't believe this was the problem). When I replaced the upper cylinder style filter, the top of the filter fell off the old filter- the circular shaped metal portion of the filter. Everything seemed to go back together fine, but when I started the bike it seemed to have the same signs/problem as before. I consulted two bike mechanics and showed them the old filters. They both said the old filters did not look bad/clogged at all. One mechanic cut into the paper filter and said it looked fine. The other mechanic said the tea bag looked relatively new, which it was. At the shop the KTM mechanic pressure tested the pump and said the output pressure was very low(maybe 20psi if I remember correctly), normal is 50psi. (In retrospect, I'd recommend this test because they can do it without taking out the pump and it seems like a relatively quick in-line test. I'd guess 1/2 hour labor at most). The tech took out the pump and noticed the cap of the pump was not sitting flush. I was surprised because I had distinctly made sure the tabs were seated correctly. Curiously, the tech said he pinched the tabs inward slightly to gain a tighter fit on the cap after installment- obviously he suspected an issue with the tabs. It seems to have worked because I have not had any trouble since. This would make even more sense to me if the pump pressures increased with higher rev's, but I don't know whether they do or not. I do not believe the problem was my filters, but the cap was not seating correctly and subsequently reducing fuel injected pressure.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by v2rider » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:54 am

Interesting. Mine was faulty according to the bike shop, so they replaced it and now the problem is gone. The fault was around the seal between the pump and the housing about halfway down, so it sounds like we may have had the same problem. A difference is that I was told the normal pressure from the pump should be about 15 bar (about 210 psi) and that he expected a faulty pump would make about 7 bar (98 psi). Anyone know what the service book numbers are for a good fuel pump?

A nice side effect of replacing the fuel pump is that it now starts first time every time. Before it would start first go about a third to half the time, and if it didn't it would take about a dozen goes before it caught and stayed running. Nice to have it running well too, I think it produces more power than it did before. Might be fooling myself about that though, trying to find good things about spending $750...

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Re: Loss of power

Post by Motiv8 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:05 pm

Given the scenario you described, I'm not sure why they would replace the whole pump. The 'filter kit' (about $100 i think) has both the filters and a number of seals/o-rings. Not sure why they'd replace the whole pump if it was just a seal. I'm fairly certain about the pressures I was told, because he said my was running about 48psi after the 'fix', which I figured was close enough to 50. I also felt that I had a tad bit more HP than I had remembered before the issue became so severe. I would something similar as you describe on start up. I could get it running after a few attempts and then it would stall out. Like you said, having a running bike makes the costs seem worth it. Good luck. I'll post again if I have trouble next season. I'm in N.Idaho and the winters are for sledding. ;-)

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Re: Loss of power

Post by Bug » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:40 pm

Not encountered this problem Yet. But reading with interest as the fuel pump filters are sure to play up soon with 13K miles on my bike.

An interesting short you tube clip with the Oz purge kit company:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3JqS4uwQ ... JqS4uwQ590
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Re: Loss of power

Post by v2rider » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:33 pm

Interesting video. I think a better option is to prevent the crap entering the tank in the first place though. I saw this pre-filter the other day. Better option than carrying a handful of Chux wipes. Made for dirtbikes, but could be adaptable for the 990 tank. Will have to check my tank to see.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by OZMAN » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:25 am

I have a 2009 smt and recently have had the same symptoms .ie. one minute approaching warp speed,then a complete loss of power.

Kev, your photos are terrific. I just wish I had the tech expertise to know where they all fit. I'll probably have to take the machine to the KTM dealer and get the filters replaced.

cheers

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Re: Loss of power

Post by kevxtx » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:00 am

If you lived in Brisbane you could have popped around & I would have fitted the filters for free for you. :D

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Re: Loss of power

Post by kevxtx » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 am

I still think running a cross filter between the 2 tanks on the cross over pipe is a good option for extending the main filter lives.

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Re: Loss of power

Post by LenFerguson » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:15 am

There have also been a few examples of pumps failing or delivering low PSI recently as well. A mate with a 12 model SMT thought that he had a blocked fuel filter but it turned put to be the fuel pump. Action motorcycles on the Gold Coast found that it was the pump and replaced it under warranty..
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Re: Loss of power

Post by LenFerguson » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:16 am

Something to keep an eye on it the filter looks clear.
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Re: Loss of power

Post by Vrednie » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:22 am

LenFerguson wrote: Action motorcycles on the Gold Coast found that it was the pump and replaced it under warranty..

Sounds like the Brisbane bike shops need to go the Gold Coast's bike shops school of etiquette.......
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Re: Loss of power

Post by LenFerguson » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:59 pm

They are good Reece, maybe they have worked it out. Look after your customers and they will come back!

Although some pricing issues will always be there until they work out that we can see everything world wide online these days.
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Re: Loss of power

Post by 990SM » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:21 am

Hi there,

I have tried a few things and adjustments but the problem remains a think is the filter... i will remove it and try to fit a new one and hope to solve the problem...
But this only occurs only when the bike is more warm normally.

BR

David L.

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