Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

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slowdown
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Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:58 pm

Man, I'm struggling. I replaced my tires a few months back. When I was done I greased the axle and nut, and torqued em down to the KTM spec of 250nm. Trying to replace my brake pads and rotors right now, but can not for the life of me get that damn nut loosened again.

I have a huge 1" 60mm Socket attached to a large 3/4" torque wrench with an adapter. Feel like I'm gonna rip the whole bike apart before that nut comes loose. How are you guys getting this done?

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by jfink » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:29 am

When I got a flat, I was concerned too!!! (see my note on the GT side) I set aside some time with SWMBO to sit on the bike and hold the rear brake. Grabbed the torque wrench and the 60mm socket, put the bike in first and before she could even get on the bike the nut broke loose, just with the compression resistance in first gear. I thought that the dealer must have under torqued it when setting it up. When I got the tire back, I torqued the wheel back on to 250nm. Again, I was surprised that it reached 250nm before she even got on the bike against the compression in first gear. I loosened it again and retightened, just to see if I was missing something. I wasn't.

So, bottom line is I don't know why it was so easy or why it would be so hard for others, but, I don't think I will need assistance as long as the threads remain pretty clean and undamaged.
Joe

2017 SDGT, 2014 BMW GTLE, 2014 KTM 500Exc, 2011 KTM 990 Adventure Dakar, 2004 Honda Goldwing

slowdown
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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:40 am

In fact I did read your post! Found it in a search before I started up this thread.

Its incredible how different an experience I am having. I remember last time I un-did the nut it was tough, but I think it came off on the first try. I had my wife pushing on the brake, and I popped it off with the torque wrench and maybe one grunt. Prior to that it had been put on at the dealer, and I assume :roll: torqued to spec, but who knows.

When I replaced it last time I torqued it to 250, which took some oomph, but nothing too crazy, maybe 2 or 3 tries.

This time, I have my wife holding the brake, the bike in 1st gear, and all the force I'm applying to wrench is actually making the pitbull stands roll backwards on their casters with the bike on em!! My wife is a small woman, and she isn't able to really apply enough forward force to stop the bike & stands from rolling back.. Even if she could, I'm not sure I have much more force to put into it.

I have a 6 point socket. Maybe I should get a 12pt? At this point I'm starting to mar the points on the nut.

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by mrossk » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:09 am

You really shouldn't be using a torque wrench to remove that nut- it's a precision instrument and should only be used to tighten the nut to spec. Get a good size socket wrench and a breaker bar to give yourself some extra leverage- some people use an impact wrench, though I don't love that idea.

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by big tall dave » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 pm

I always use a cordless impact gun to remove the nut, and then I use one hand to hold the rear brake while I tighten it with a 1/2” torque wrench. Never had a problem.
Maybe get a friend to sit on the bike with their foot on the brake while you use a breaker bar with a long piece of pipe slipped over it?

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:23 am

Thanks, you're right Ross, I shouldn't have tried using torque wrench, but it was all I had. I went out and got a breaker bar today... No dice. I literally stood on it, the nut didn't budge. I am starting to round off the points on the nut.

In other news, I called my local dealer to see if they had a replacement 60mm nut for me, just in case I am ever able to get this one off. I think it would be a good idea to replace it once I'm done with this, since I'm messing up the points. He told me the '14 1290 takes a 50mm Nut, not a 60mm. I told him I think that's wrong, as I've read 60mm all over the place, and have in fact used this 60mm socket successfully once before..... Am I crazy??

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:56 am

big tall dave wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 pm
I always use a cordless impact gun to remove the nut, and then I use one hand to hold the rear brake while I tighten it with a 1/2” torque wrench. Never had a problem.
Maybe get a friend to sit on the bike with their foot on the brake while you use a breaker bar with a long piece of pipe slipped over it?
Thanks! The cheater bar, along with my wife sitting on the bike did the trick! Will definitely go straight to that option next time. Now I just gotta figure out how to replace the rear brake disc while I have the pitbull stand in the way on the sprocket side... Hmmm :?:

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by big tall dave » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:00 am

I’m assuming you know, but just to double check.....You removed the two, wire safety clips? The nut loosens to the left? If so, maybe the nut has galled to the wheel. I’ve seen steel wheel bearings galled to aluminum hubs on trucks before (never on a motorcycle though). You could try a using a liberal amount of WD40 and letting it sit overnight, then borrow an impact and give it a go......or ride to an auto shop with your socket in your pocket and get them to try. Just throwing ideas at you, no offense.

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by big tall dave » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:58 pm

[/quote]

Thanks! The cheater bar, along with my wife sitting on the bike did the trick! Will definitely go straight to that option next time. Now I just gotta figure out how to replace the rear brake disc while I have the pitbull stand in the way on the sprocket side... Hmmm :?:
[/quote]

If you’re looking for a better solution than a Pitbull-type stand, I highly recommend Heindl Engineering stands. They’re great quality, sturdy, economical, and I can pretty much remove anything on the bike without it getting in the way. I use an old scissor jack and a block of wood under the engine the lift the front wheel up too. It can be used on a bunch of different bikes as well.
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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by abc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:31 am

The solution to the sticking wheel nut is to simply lubricate the threads with grease, then lubricate the tapered face on the nut and both sides of the shim washer and you will never again have trouble removing the wheel nut. Don't flood the surfaces, a very light even coat is all that is needed. Wipe off any excess after assembly, although if lubricated correctly you won't have any excess to clean up.
Doing this will also ensure you are applying the correct torque to the assembly. Everything will jam up if assembled dry because the tapers (wheel and nut) lock under pressure. its as simple as that!
If you have used your torque wrench to undo the nut and tried to do so using heaps of force, then you need to have it checked for calibration or throw it in the trash. They are not designed to be used in the way you have used yours!

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by Joe1290 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:05 am

slowdown wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:23 am
He told me the '14 1290 takes a 50mm Nut, not a 60mm. I told him I think that's wrong, as I've read 60mm all over the place, and have in fact used this 60mm socket successfully once before..... Am I crazy??
The nut is M50 x 1.5 and requires a 60mm socket, so you're both right lol.

I've actually got another one on order as my original has broken the teeth for the locking wire.

As for removal, I use a 1 metre breaker bar and have no trouble undoing the nut. Bursig socket helps too as it slides into the axle and stays in place.

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by drdon » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:02 pm

abc wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:31 am
The solution to the sticking wheel nut is to simply lubricate the threads with grease, then lubricate the tapered face on the nut and both sides of the shim washer and you will never again have trouble removing the wheel nut. Don't flood the surfaces, a very light even coat is all that is needed. Wipe off any excess after assembly, although if lubricated correctly you won't have any excess to clean up.
Doing this will also ensure you are applying the correct torque to the assembly. Everything will jam up if assembled dry because the tapers (wheel and nut) lock under pressure. its as simple as that!
If you have used your torque wrench to undo the nut and tried to do so using heaps of force, then you need to have it checked for calibration or throw it in the trash. They are not designed to be used in the way you have used yours!
you do realize there is an anti seize compound that is made especially for this purpose?

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by abc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:47 am

Yes I do and I use it regularly as Im in the aerospace manufacturing industry - but for a very basic assembly like the 1290 wheel nut a little grease will do the job and save you $80 bucks for anti scuffing paste ;)

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:33 am

I used Motorex grease on the axle and bolt when I last did it up, and will do so again this time. What I probably didn't do was clean the threads very well before I fastened it, so maybe that had something to do with the difficulty I had getting that nut loose.

I think another aspect is that my 60mm socket is really deep impact socket, and it slips off the nut pretty easily. I ordered the socket online, and it came from China, so who knows how well it was machined. It rounded the points on the M50 nut, to the point that I decided to order a new one.

The breaker bar with a cheater bar slipped over top will be my new go-to for undoing the rear tire from now on.

While we're here, can anyone verify I have the correct and updated torque specs regarding the rear assembly for a '14 model year? I have a hard copy of the original 2014 service manual, and it doesn't get updated as KTM changes stuff.

Wheel nut (60mm tire side nut) : Original 200Nm, revised up to 250Nm
Rear axle nut (41mm sprocket side) : Original 200Nm, has not been revised (Unsure of this-- can anyone clarify?)
Chain adjuster clamp bolt: Original 50Nm, now revised up to 70Nm

Any other updates I'm missing? Thanks all, this board has been extremely helpful!

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by abc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:27 am

Wheel nut 250Nm (lubricated)
Rear axle nut 200Nm
Chain adjuster clamp bolt 70Nm. This 20Nm change in spec from the original torque spec had the most impact on fixing the original rear hub problems on the early 1290's. The original clamping force was not enough to hold the hub assembly tightly inside the swing arm bore. Some bikes also ingested water into their hubs :( but drilling a drain hole fixed that particular issue.
For any other stuff jump onto the ktm website and punch in your VIN for info on official recall items.

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Re: Do you all tighten your rear wheel nut to 250nM? If so, HTF do you get it loosened?

Post by slowdown » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:50 pm

Thank you!! Just waiting on the appropriate Loctite 262 to come in the mail, and then all will be re-assembled and finished. Some of these Loctite product numbers are hard to track down in the US. I read some literature about US market equivalencies, but screw it, I'm in no rush. There's snow on the ground right now, I can wait a few days for the recommended product to get here in the mail.

Thanks again everyone.

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