Help with tire choice

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by lcjohnny » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:30 am

Hey Ogden that sounds like a brilliant trip :D
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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by Gnosisdog » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:02 am

Before deciding I'd get some high mileage feedback on the revised Metzeler Z8's. Anyone?

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by waterpro1 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:07 am

i would get the pirelli scorpion trail sync, same tyres as the 1200 multistrada

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by bambadoo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:29 am

Gnosisdog wrote:Before deciding I'd get some high mileage feedback on the revised Metzeler Z8's. Anyone?
Just fitted a pair. To early to get a decent review from me :)

However they feel great. Changed from pr3 which were also great :mrgreen:

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by waterpro1 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:37 am

cool, just bought my smt, the conti attacks are shite on the wet roads, crap on dirt and marginal in the dry, pirelli pretty well run the same compounds across all their road tyres, jut different tread patterns to suit current trends.
ive ridden them on the multi strada with 150 hp, great tyre, so it'll be fine for the lesser hp smt!
every road bike should be on them, and ive had them at a track day too, no issue

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by falcon4 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:32 pm

waterpro1 wrote:i would get the pirelli scorpion trail sync, same tyres as the 1200 multistrada
It was fine, but nothing special imo.

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by falcon4 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:41 pm

Duckman wrote:Just me but I don't mix tires. I trust that the people that design them know what they are doing and they will work best if used as intended.
Isn't that about like not changing the airbox on the smt and saying the people who design....etc..
but then missing the 5+ hp and and growl.
I wouldn't expect they have any special idea on how the front and back would work together
relative to the smt, as all bikes having their own dynamics I expect.

No expert on it for sure, but I just ordered a Q3 for front and Angel ST for back on sale price
and wear tm. My idea is the Angel should last close to the Q3 on front and that getting a new
front and rear set each time is more important than matching tires.
My guess is any dissatisfaction you had with mixing tires was more due to difference in wear,
than difference in brand.

Now, some expert on Cycle tire come on here and school me on how this is wrong so I will be
smarter next time.... :D

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by waterpro1 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:57 pm

you should work for pirelli! that would save them a lot of time and money, they could just make rears and we could stick a scooter tyre on the front that would last the same as the rear, then we could change then at the same time!

when i'm lying in hospital, i could sleep well knowing i got the most mileage, and i could spend the money i saved on hospital extras, like cable tv,

all tyre manufactueres, and common sense will tell you that mix mtched tyres on a bike capable of over 220km/h is a very bad idea, its a performance bike, and getting anything over 4,000km out of a set of appropriate tyres used as their makers intended, and the bike ridden as it's makers intended, is a bonus.

buy a cb 250 if youre looking for economical bike, be it fuel, or tyres

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by ogden » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:05 am

waterpro1 wrote:getting anything over 4,000km out of a set of appropriate tyres used as their makers intended, and the bike ridden as it's makers intended, is a bonus.
Absolute cast-iron bollocks.

If you're getting less than 2500 miles (4000km) from a set of tyres on an SMT, you're using the wrong tyres. It only makes a shade over 100bhp and the chassis geometry means it's not the sharpest handling tool, so soft tyres for road use are a waste, and I'd class anything that wears out in 2000 miles of normal use as soft. The SMT's strength is its ability to soak up shit surfaces and still let you have fun, and when you're riding on chewed-up tarmac and back roads sprinkled with gravel a set of Diablo Supercorsas isn't going to pay huge dividends.

I've been using PR2s, PR3s and the like for years on my road bikes (the SMT, and before that my GSXR1000, which is hardly a pussycat of a bike). I typically get 5000 miles from a rear, twice that from a front, and I'd get more if it wasn't for my straight-line, stop-start urban commute chewing up the rear. I've ridden it gently, I've ridden it hard, I've ridden on perfect tarmac, I've ridden on rubble, and not once did I find myself wishing I'd fitted something stickier. Not once.

I was almost caught out 300 miles from home when the OE tyres on my SMT wore out. I'm sure they were picked not because they were the most suitable for the bike, but because they pandered to the sporty image that KTM wanted to pin on the SMT. The new Adventure makes 30+bhp more and comes with TrailAttack 2s, harder and longer-lasting than the comedy hoops that came on the SMT. How do you think that ought to be ridden?

As to mixing tyres, manufacturers may not recommend it, but none of them will threaten you with doom if you stick to radial tyres of the right size and profile at each end. Of course they'd love you to replace both tyres at the same time to make sure the brands on the sidewalls match, and maybe even use their super-sticky ones that last half as long, but the idea that not doing so will put you in hospital is preposterous.
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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by waterpro1 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:32 am

Sounds like you ride like a commuter, if you get that mileage your not riding it as the Austrians intended, mix and match, I care not.

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by ogden » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:40 am

waterpro1 wrote:Sounds like you ride like a commuter
Presumptuous tit.
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Help with tire choice

Post by LenFerguson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Og I'm surprised that you get that amount of mileage out of your tyres. Especially the front, don't you feel that they go off and start to handle like shit.
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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by ogden » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:32 pm

Honestly, no, I find the rears are the root of all evil. The weight bias on the SMT is such that the front doesn't seem to take much of a pounding, and it spends a lot of time just skimming the tarmac anyway, even in corners.

If the rear tyre is fresh, the handling's good. As soon as the rear starts to square off, the weaves kick in and the fucker refuses to turn. Put a fresh rear on and it all comes back, regardless (for the most part) of what state the rear's in. 5k+ miles from a rear, and 8-10k from a front, not unreasonable. Not unless you're buying unnecessarily soft rubber, anyway. For comparison, I'm using Michelin Power Supersport hoops on the gixer, good for about 600 miles tops, because on the track the rubber really matters. On the road, it's the gravel, diesel and general crud that's going to get you, not the difference between an A or B compound on the shoulder.

I've also pretty much given up replacing the SMT's tyres as a set. Whichever one's worn gets replaced, unless I'm going for a wholesale change like I did with the Conti TA2s for the Istanbul trip. It helps that I'm able to do my own tyre fitting, so I can keep old not-quite-knackered ones hanging around in case they come in handy another day - if the rear's 1000 miles from needing replacing, and I have a spare front that's got the same left in it, I can go for a fresh set at some point and get the full benefit. But it seems to be the rear that matters on the SMT.

That comment in the post above... "pirelli pretty well run the same compounds across all their road tyres, jut different tread patterns to suit current trends". Absolute nonsense. The idea that a Scorpion Trail and a Diablo Supercorsa share the same compound... you have to wonder what planet some people live on.

But hey, what do I know. Only 19000 miles on an SMT in the last 18 months, and I ride like a commuter. ;)
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Help with tire choice

Post by LenFerguson » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:51 pm

You will have to change your name to "The Commuter" has a kind of ominous ring to it... :D
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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by waterpro1 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:38 am

I'm suprised the time to ride with all the dribble you
Pommy git, fancy saying you don't use the front !
Come out to Australia and show us how you get around a track or mountain range of corners and not use the front tyre!

I might leave this to you guys to the Pirelli tech experts ., thought I'd try a forum for some helpful advice, unfortunately , all you get, apart from Kevtx a d some others is a small group of keyboard blowhards .

I'll leave you guys to it, lastly, before I leave this forum unfortunately , to the smart, normal people out there , whatever you do, DON'T, mix tyres!!!

Unless your a pommy backmarker that gets 30,000 km out of a set of tyres without using the front, then, well, it wouldn't matter whether you mix and match!!

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by Windblown » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:22 am

waterpro1 wrote:
I'll leave you guys to it, lastly, before I leave this forum unfortunately , to the smart, normal people out there , whatever you do, DON'T, mix tyres!!!
That's special. Hahahahaha.

Your words are clearly wasted here. You're just too smart for this group. ;)

Since you don't know squat about tire compounds I'm guessing you're a beginner or ignorant. Either way, your advice may be good for those who wouldn't know an Metzler ME880 from a N-TEC slick but it's far from being a golden rule. I sometimes run matched sets they're "matched" for 500 miles or less before the profiles start to differ from design. I sometimes run a sport front and S/T rear. I sometimes run inappropriate tires too. Stream crossings on sport tires, track days on sport touring tires. Street riding on knobbies. Still here, still kicking, and not especially lucky, I figure I'll be ok.

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by falcon4 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:23 am

ogden wrote:
waterpro1 wrote: It only makes a shade over 100bhp and the chassis geometry means it's not the sharpest handling tool, so soft tyres for road use are a waste, and I'd class anything that wears out in 2000 miles of normal use as soft.
Educate me more, as I'm sure you have more experience than I by a long shot, but I want to hear more on the
handling of the SMT. I've been ripping thru the mountains pretty good and getting lots of positive comments about my
riding, from guys I ride by and leave on the SMT,
which I always just say
"It's the bike way more than me. Anyone can likely turn like that on the SMT."

Maybe its that we all just stink, but a couple have been considered quite good and been to some riding schools and
such...one on the 1200 mult strada and another on a RSV. What I'm saying is that I know I'm not that good, but
seem to be getting some pretty good performance in the mountains vs my level and better riders on sport
bikes. I also watched some bike comparisons where the SMT seemed to fare quite well against other sport bikes.
Tell me more about what is lacking in the SMT handling and what some of the better handling bikes are if you will.
I appreciate the education.
thanks,

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by ogden » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:42 am

Crikey, could you sound any more defensive? I'm not saying the SMT's a shit bike - it's not, I've got one, I love it.

The SMT is great for riding through the mountains. Not because the handling's sharp - it's soft and bouncy and goes to pot at high speed - but because you're so upright you can see further ahead, the bars are wide so you have more leverage to make it turn, and because the relatively soft (but well damped) suspension is great at soaking up the surface so you can focus on what's ahead, not what's underneath you.

Is it better suited to that kind of road than a razor-sharp sportsbike with stiff suspension? Yes. Is it a scalpel-like precision tool? Christ no. You wouldn't use a scalpel in the kitchen, and you wouldn't use a bread-knife to do heart surgery. Does it matter when the chips are down? Not in the slightest.

And does any of that warrant putting super-sticky tyres on it for road riding? No. Not unless you think you need them to be confident enough to ride the way you want, in which case spend the money and be ready to spend it again twice as soon as you could have done.
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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by lcjohnny » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:26 pm

I agree the SMT is not a pin sharp handler but it is much better without the Continental original tyres.
The fact that they are so shocking is very good proof that the OEM recommendations are not necessarily the best advice for the owner.

Just as 'The Commuter' says this "never mix tyres" nonsense is typical
it is part product liability arrss covering from tyre manufacturers, fitters and bike makers
and part cynical attempt to enforce customer loyalty when front tyres last 2-3 times longer than rears

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Re: Help with tire choice

Post by Windblown » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:40 pm

The thing I love about the SMT is it's an easy and forgiving bike to ride and the long suspension (compared to a SS) puts up with a lot of shenanigans. It gladly accepts rough handling that would piss off a banjo string tight sport bike. On the street the SMT is brilliant. On the track it becomes obvious that it's a bit out of it's element compared to a 600 class SS. I didn't buy my SMT for the track though, and yes it will lay waste to sportbikes through the twists and turns when they don't have a pampered clean surface to ride on.

Back onto tires: I found the Contis to be a decent all around sport tire. It's biggest fault IMHO is that it's priced way higher than other sport tires that are easily as good if not better.

At the moment I have the stock Conti on the front and a BT003 on the rear since I had the BT003 sitting in the garage not being used. I'll switch over to something better for the broad range of conditions I ride in on the next change. Possibly PR3's which I haven't run, or I may go with Angel STs (not GT). I really like the Angels aggressive profile for an ST type tire. The biggest factor making me consider PR3s is that they have a reputation for lasting quite a bit longer than the Angels. I never got more than 4000 miles out of Angel ST rears on an FZ1 and the FZ1 does not have a reputation as a tire eater compared to the SMT. It would be nice if whatever I put on now would last until April of next year but that's a hopeless pipe dream. LOL.

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