How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

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How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Magic Wand » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:07 pm

Hi all!

I took off the rear wheel and noticed that the 2 ball bearings (6006-2RS1) in the sprocket support are worn (out). They do keep on rolling, but to turn them around by hand, it´s really not smooth! I feel they are too much inert.

The spacer bushings (in and outside) seems to get stucked. I just can´t get them out from the bearings.
KTM.jpg


Any tips how to remove the spacer bushings?
And how to get the bearings out of the sprocket support?

/Magic
Last edited by Magic Wand on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by adcolor » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:56 am

I vaguely recall what it looks like with the sprocket carrier removed.
Presuming it's hot where you live, lay the wheel in the sun in the afternoon. Then use a heat gun on the hub area.

You will need a hammer and a drift punch. A dead blow soft faced hammer is even better.

Reaching through the wheel hub, you will drive the opposite side bearing out. Tap one edge, then move to the other side and tap it out. This requires moving back and forth to work it out. Hopefully, with the heat, it just falls out. Repeat for the other side.
Alternate method: Buy or rent a bearing puller. Still use heat.

Install: Use a bearing seater. Though there are special tools for this , most of us use a socket with a slightly smaller diameter than the outer diameter of the bearing. Use the open end against the bearing. This is so you do not damage the rollers in the bearing. You drive the bearing in straight - be very careful to not drive it in crooked, as this can damage the wheel. Hint: put the bearing in the freezer. Hot wheel, cold bearing may even just fall in. If the tire is off the wheel, the wheel may even fit in the oven. I wouldn't go above 200 F.
Mods: arrow exhaust, 2nd flies removed, plugged air injection caps, JC30-80 air filter, 44T sprocket, 80w high beam, short levers, weighted bar ends, Rox risers, remapped ecu, heated grips, horn, radiator screen, crash bar, skid plate, backrest.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by Magic Wand » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:01 pm

Thank´s for reply "adcolor"!
I´m sure it will help me in some way.

I live in Sweden (one of the countries by northernmost point on land :-) ) It´s not hot at all, so I need a heat gun, and will try to borrow/buy one as soon as possible.
I have done bearing removal/installation before on my MX-bikes, but never on a "street bike".

I got a perfect skip hammer and I´m sure I´ll be able to find something to use as a drift punch.

BUT, still the problem with the spacers that are stucked... (see picture). To reach the bearings I need to pull the spacers out in some way. I know there is a tiny edge (see picture again) to hit with a punch or similar, but I´m a bit afraid to damage something :?
Maybe a socket with an external sharp edge will do the job... :!: That is to use it on the tiny edge. It´s worth a try.

(The very wet rain is falling here in Stockholm as the foaming water in Niagara Falls, otherwise I would already be outside trying!)

The mounting description of the bearings you give is the one that I usually use! Way better to use the heat gun to heat up the hub and put the bearings in the freezer for some time, than not to do it!
Maybe I will try to put the sprocket support unit in the owen, due to the fact that it´s a single device, parted from the rim/wheel.

Will report how things worked out ;)

Thank´s again!

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by adcolor » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:36 pm

I see that I mis-read your post. Much easier to change the bearings in the sprocket carrier -- it's easier to move around.

Various schemes:
Grind a bit of a hook in a pin punch (or just file the end at an angle) so that it will not slip off due to the angle the punch. Don't worry about damaging your spacer if you have to. It is easy enough to file it smooth -- it is not a critically dimensioned part.

If that doesn't work easily, find a freeze spray and spray the bearing when you are ready to remove it (after heating it). A commonly (at least in the US) available spray is the pressurized computer keyboard cleaner (pressurized air). Turn the can upside down and freezing liquid will come out. Access to liquid nitrogen would be awesome, though highly unlikely (go to your local skin doctor and ask them to freeze it while you drive it out).

Here are a couple of examples of bearing pullers. These are often used to remove the clutch pilot bearings in cars. If you find one that doesn't have the outer 'legs' to press against the carrier, you will to figure out a way to make something. Perhaps a large pipe cap with cut outs to allow the puller legs to reach past it. The cap would have to contact the carrier (the final shape something like a long legged spider).

http://in.rsdelivers.com/product/skf/tm ... 74137.aspx
http://www.toolplanet.com/product/MIT-P ... s-removers

A very creative method:
http://laszy.com/home-made-bearing-puller/

There is always taking it a local auto mechanic and bringing a 6 pack of good beer with you (or the local Swedish liquor of choice).
Mods: arrow exhaust, 2nd flies removed, plugged air injection caps, JC30-80 air filter, 44T sprocket, 80w high beam, short levers, weighted bar ends, Rox risers, remapped ecu, heated grips, horn, radiator screen, crash bar, skid plate, backrest.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by Magic Wand » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:38 pm

Ahh I see - that´s why I become a bit confused from your reply :?

I think I might have attached a bad photo - here comes another one that shows it better. I hope.
Spacer.jpg
What you can see in the photo above is the spacer which is stuck in the bearing(s), in the sprocket carrier.
I guess I will try to use the skip hammer and a pin punch that I have grinded of to a "sharp" edge to use on the end of the spacer (inside, where the both spacers meet). Hopefully the spacers will come out and not too damaged.

There is another way to get the bearings out from the sprocket carrier(?):
Heat the sprocket carrier. Use a socket onto the spacer and hit it hard to drive both bearings out of the carrier. (Maybe there is an edge which abuts the ball bearings??!!) Then it woun´t work... of course.
After the bearings are demounted it´s easier to pull the spacers out from bearings, I believe.

Freeze spray
It´s not easy to find freeze spray in Stockholm.
I think you mean that I should try to first heat the bearings and then cool them down direct and fast, which will make them break "into 2 pieces". Right?
I also think that you mean I should freeze the spacer (not the bearing) to get the spacers out. Right?
Maybe it will work with regular ice from the freezer to put "inside" the spacers, and then try to hit them with socket and hammer, to make them come out from the bearings.

Still waiting for the sun to break through the dark rain clouds...!

I like the idea to bring it with to the local auto mechanic, to get some help and bringing some beer :D
It used to work back in the days and I still believe it will work!

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by adcolor » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:59 pm

Beer: the international language of diplomacy.

Maybe there is an edge which abuts the ball bearings? :twisted:

Look for an exploded view and parts list. Are these bearings or spacers? (Parts list description.)

I can't tell for sure from the pictures, though they look like spacers, not bearings. And I don't remember from past work. If you can confirm they are not held in by ridged recesses (which doesn't seem likely) then they will drive out with a socket. I presume that they are corroded in place -- likely the end effect of all your rain.

Have you tried penetrating oil? Probably a US only brand, but Kroil is the best. Usually available from industrial suppliers and gun products companies.

Poor mans version: ATF (automatic transmission fluid -- basically high detergent hydraulic fluid) and acetone mixed 1:1. Let it soak in a couple of days (as you leave in the morning and arrive home in the evening for example). Then wipe it off, heat the hub, and tap them out.

-----------------

Given the effect on the hub, have you drilled holes in your swing arm?
Greased the steering head bearings?
Greased the swing arm bearings?
Grease/anti-seize/slip comound the chain adjuster bolts?

These are generally NOT generously greased from KTM. Even if they had been, I had a Triumph that had grease zerks (joints?) that did not get the lubricant to the needle bearings. It's not difficult to remove the swing arm since you already have the wheel out.

The corrosion issue is caused by 3 things: water, galvanic action (dissimilar metals), not enough grease. You can only control the last one.
Mods: arrow exhaust, 2nd flies removed, plugged air injection caps, JC30-80 air filter, 44T sprocket, 80w high beam, short levers, weighted bar ends, Rox risers, remapped ecu, heated grips, horn, radiator screen, crash bar, skid plate, backrest.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by Magic Wand » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:33 pm

Yeah! Beer is the "language"! :)
exploded view.png
exploded view.png (17.89 KiB) Viewed 4054 times
Damn good idea to look at an exploded view... Huereka! There is a "stop" at the inner end where the bearings are mounted in the sprocket carrier.
Not in the center, between the bearings, as I was afraid of. So the bearings can only come out one way. Half way there! :D

WARNING! The picture above does NOT show the correct look of the sprocket carriet/support!!! The tiny edge seen at the bottom of the hole in the carrier is NOT placed there in reality. The edge is in the MIDDLE of the hole in the carrier/support! Which means that one have to pull the bearings out like this: the left bearing to the left side and the right bearing to the right side.

Nr 12: SPACER BUSH. SPR. SUPP. IN.

Nr 13: BALL BEARING 6006 DDU2CG23S6NM

Nr 14: NILOS RING 6006AV - that is simply a cover for the balls in the bearing. But the bearings installed in the sprocket carrier is SKF 6006-2RS1. That is double Nilos ring (on both sides) as far as I know. The new ones I bought is 6006 Z, which is "metal covers" (Nilos ring) on both sides that cover the balls.
CORRECTION! The Nilos ring is a metal ring that covers the bearing (out)side, nothing else!

Nr 15: SPACER BUSH. SPROCKET SUPP.
-

Most likely you are correct about the rain effect on metals... :(

Honestly, no I didn´t try penetrating oil, because the one I used to have emptied just the other day!
:idea: , interesting mixture of acetone and AFT. I don´t have neither of them at home...
-

I removed the wheel (obviously), loosened (and took out) the upper bolt to the shock absorber, took out the swing arm axle and finally took out the swing arm. Also took the chain out and cleaned it. And the front sprocket as well.

Drilled the holes in the swing arm: CHECK!
Greased the stearing head bearings: NO, not yet.
Greased swing arm: No need to (strange but true)!
Grease/anti-seize/slip comound the chain adjuster bolts: Previous owner did (made me VEERY surprised...)! :D
Last edited by Magic Wand on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by budgesrsv » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:39 pm

Hi I changed the bearings in my sprocket carrier recently so I can probably shed some light.
I noticed the bearings felt a bit rough when I took the wheel out for a tyre change so decided to change them. I bought mine from the bearing supplier I use for work for about £15. They are 6006 2RS C3.
I didn't use any heat just a bit of penetrating oil left to soak overnight, then tapped on the inside edge of the inner spacer with a 10mm hardened pin punch and hammer until it came out. I then repeated the process on the other spacer.When the spacers are out you can use the same punch to remove the bearings from the inside. Once everything was apart I found the bearings weren't that bad, the reason for the roughness was corrosion of the spacers and the aluminium shoulder in the housing ! Crappy KTM plating yet again.
I gave everything a good clean up and a smear of anti-seize compound and fitted the new bearings and re fitted the spacers.
Make sure to check the spacers on the spindle before you re-assemble everything as there will probably be burrs where the punch has hit which will prevent the spindle from sliding through freely. I just used a round file to remove the burrs.
Hope this has been of some help :D

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by budgesrsv » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:52 pm

I just had a look at the exploded drawing and it shows the bearings both fitted from one side up to a shoulder. From memory I was sure the shoulder was in the centre as on most bikes ? Perhaps its old age or beer afflicting me :lol:
Whichever way it is you will need to get the spacers out.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by Magic Wand » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:19 pm

budgesrsv:
You are RIGHT! The "shoulder" IS placed in the MIDDLE of the hole!

Anyway, I tried to heat the carrier/support using a heat gun, and then hit really hard on a big socket with my no bouncing hammer! The bearings didn´t move at all. It was really stucked.
-

To get the spacers out I used a sharp edged spark plug socket:
Sharp edge.jpg
-

Then I hit the socket with a steel hammer to get the spacers out. (I believe it come loose earlier when I tried hard to pull out the bearing using heat, socket and hammer):
Pulling bearing.jpg
-

This is how the left spacer looked like when it finally came out:
Dirty spacer.jpg
-

Inside after I managed to get the spacer out:
Bearing inside.jpg
Note that there is a loose ring between the bearings (I guess it´s some kind of spacer as well).
-

The hurt spacer after using the sharp edged spark plug socket:
Hurt spacer.jpg
-

To be continued...
Last edited by Magic Wand on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support?

Post by Magic Wand » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:27 pm

Continuing...


This is the left side (outside = the sprocket side) bearing (the one that was really bad!):
Bad bearing.jpg
-

This is the right side bearing (not bad at all, but of course I replaced it anyway):
Good bearing.jpg
-

The old bearings (Note the center ring/spacer!):
Center ring.jpg
-

After removing the spacers I decided to get some help from the local car mechanic. First I didn´t bring the new bearings, because I put them in the freezer to get "smaller". But the mechanic asked me to get them to let him install them in the carrier. I went back home to get them and when I came back to the mechanic he had already pulled the old bearings out.
At that time I could see by my own eyes that there is an "edge" in the middle of the hole in the carrier and I understand that´s why I couldn´t drive the bearings out, hitting as hard as I could with the hammer (well, almost).
He installed the new bearings in 1 minute with a "tool pressure" (don´t find the correct word).

Both new bearings mounted in the carrier:
New bearings.jpg
-

The left side spacer (after I 've "processed" the spacer):
Left spacer.jpg
-

The right side spacer (also after "process"):
Right spacer.jpg
-

Thank´s a lot to everyone who was "active" in this thread giving thoughts, ideas and facts! I hope this thread with text and pictures will be used by other SMT riders :)
/M

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by budgesrsv » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:40 am

Nice one ! Looks like you can't always rely on exploded drawings :( someone could wreck the carrier if they tried to press out both bearings together. At least I know I'm not senile just yet :lol:

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Jorrel » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:34 am

Great tip!

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by adcolor » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:40 am

Thanks for the pictures and both of your inputs. Experience and pictures are golden!

The next time I put a rear tire on I will pull the carrier and spacers and liberally apply anti-seize (or wheel bearing grease). That should keep any concerns down.

Did the shield on the bearing just come off? Or did you pry it off? If you pried it off I will not worry about greasing the bearings, if they come off easily I will attempt to grease them.
Mods: arrow exhaust, 2nd flies removed, plugged air injection caps, JC30-80 air filter, 44T sprocket, 80w high beam, short levers, weighted bar ends, Rox risers, remapped ecu, heated grips, horn, radiator screen, crash bar, skid plate, backrest.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by budgesrsv » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:50 am

The bearings in mine were both rubber sealed and pre lubricated. If they look a bit dodgy I would change them as they aren't expensive to buy. If I had access to a lathe I would have made some new spacers from stainless steel.

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Magic Wand » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:51 pm

adcolor wrote:Thanks for the pictures and both of your inputs. Experience and pictures are golden!

The next time I put a rear tire on I will pull the carrier and spacers and liberally apply anti-seize (or wheel bearing grease). That should keep any concerns down.

Did the shield on the bearing just come off? Or did you pry it off? If you pried it off I will not worry about greasing the bearings, if they come off easily I will attempt to grease them.
-

The shields did NOT just came off ;-) I did pry them off with a tiny screwdriver.
Don´t bother to grease them if they have the shields. I believe it´s quite difficult to put them back again, due to they get a bit "twisted" when using screwdriver to get them off.
/M
-

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Magic Wand » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:53 pm

budgesrsv wrote:The bearings in mine were both rubber sealed and pre lubricated. If they look a bit dodgy I would change them as they aren't expensive to buy. If I had access to a lathe I would have made some new spacers from stainless steel.
-

Definitely right! I would also let someone make new spacers made of stainless steel, if I had the opertunity.
/M
-

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by jmh » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:09 pm

Can anyone confirm, is there meant to be a spacer in between the bearings?

I note the OP has a spacer, but if you look at the parts diagram it's not there.

Anyone else able to just pull their sprocket carrier off and see?

Thanks!

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Nordic09 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:56 pm

There is a spacer
KTM SMT 2010 (Rottweiler and map in, secondaries, SAS and O2 off)
ex Triumph Street Triple R 2013 (too little torque)
ex Triumph Street Triple R 2011 (stolen)
ex Honda CR125 1989
ex Suzuki RG125 1985
ex Yamaha YZ80 1987

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Re: How to replace bearings in sprocket support/carrier?

Post by Magic Wand » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:03 pm

'jmh'

Hi!
Have a look at my photos in the post from Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:27 pm. The last picture shows the distance ring/spacer in BETWEEN the ball bearings.

/M

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