Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Here be mechanigeeks. Anything technical that is not a teething problem.
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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Elvis » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:06 pm

2 updates:

1. KTM answered my mail with a copy paste BS, interesting thing was their statement that any good will
will be granted only if i can show that from 2012 the bike did not miss any maintenance and all was done at
KTM dealer.
My bike did not miss any oil change and parts are originals but it was not done by the KTM dealer.
there was no interest from KTM to investigate the issue.
10 years ago i had out of warranty clutch basket issue on a Suzuki motorcycle, i wrote Suzuki and they
contact the local dealer for me and ask me to arrive, clutch basket was replaced free of charged and i only
payed for the oil lost in the process, i guess KTM have to many issues to deal with so the best thing is to
leave them with one less customer.

2. I removed the clutch basket today and was supersized to see the circlip in place but the oil pump sprocket is
cut in half
brooken sprocket.jpg
After some digging i found that the sprocket behind the clutch basket is spinning in place because it broke
off the pins that holds him in place.
so now i need a clutch basket as well (550 euro)
The big question is how it happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

broken pins of clutch basket.jpg

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Zombie Master » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:44 am

Interesting. Too bad they won't make good on this. I had a terrible experience with Suzuki when my Bandit had soft cams. KTM did finally replace my tank and fuel pump when my fuel filter was clogging every 6000klms. They had to have the new tank coated. My most recent bike is a Suzuki DR650. I didn't even take it in for the first service. It seems anything, any mod, will nullify the warranty. :(

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by jhalfhide » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:32 am

I’d show them that snapped gear. They may change their tune as that looks like it must have been a defect from manufacturer. No way should that snap like that.


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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Magic Wand » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:15 pm

I agree wth 'jhalfhide'. Send the pictures to KTM and give them the chance to give their oppinion of what has happened in that engine.
Also, if possible, send them the data's WHEN and at what milage the oil and filters were changed.

/M
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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Elvis » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:32 pm

I got the new sprocket and guess what?
KTM knows about this issue so they replaced the sprocket with a more robust one (with no holes).
IMG_20180913_180951[110528].jpg

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by jhalfhide » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:11 pm

How’s the rest of it looking? At least you know that’s problem solved for good now. These engines are proper 6 figure mileage monsters of treated right. Won’t be swapping mine for anything for a few years gets and may even keep an eye out for a donor motor and keep it beyond that.


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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Zombie Master » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:17 am

That replacement part shows that there was a design problem. Where it broke is obviously a weak line. What year is your bike? I wonder if my 2013 has the drilled part. Should be a recall!

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Elvis » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:54 am

Mine is 2012 (ABS model)

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by jhalfhide » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:11 am

Interesting. Will have to check with KTM when that part was changed. Maybe it wasn’t until the 1090/1190


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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Zombie Master » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:20 am

:geek:
jhalfhide wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:11 am
Interesting. Will have to check with KTM when that part was changed. Maybe it wasn’t until the 1090/1190 Image


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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by limeyduffa » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:04 am

Hi Elvis,

I posted your thread link on the superduke forum as there are many more 990 LC8 owners on this forum to propagate this safety warning (these guys ride their bikes much more harder than SMT owners).

http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=27941

As echoed by other members. Email KTM above photos, State your hypothesis that they know about the design flaw. it's plain as day in my opinion with the up-issued revision. I believe a court system would think so too. KTM will prove to be complete c@nts if they don't come good on this.

I'm going to check mine next service and replace if it's the defect version.

J

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Elvis » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:32 am

limeyduffa wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:04 am
Hi Elvis,

I posted your thread link on the superduke forum as there are many more 990 LC8 owners on this forum to propagate this safety warning (these guys ride their bikes much more harder than SMT owners).

http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=27941

As echoed by other members. Email KTM above photos, State your hypothesis that they know about the design flaw. it's plain as day in my opinion with the up-issued revision. I believe a court system would think so too. KTM will prove to be complete c@nts if they don't come good on this.

I'm going to check mine next service and replace if it's the defect version.

J
Thanks,
My first E-mail to KTM was on the soft side but next one will be different and it will be with all the official pre court statments (and will be sent by mail not e-mail).

As i said KTM did not show interest to Investigate and just said that any good will repair most be backed up with a full signed since 2012 maintanace book which i don't have, also i have a DNA air box and my guess they will also use this in order to avoid responsibility.

From my engineering experience it seems that the oil pump sprocket that is with contat with the back sprocket on the clutch basket has no stress on it, meaning you can rev the bike like crazy and the stress on those sprokets will more or less stays the same so its a pure weak material issue.

My bike has only 25000 km on it and the side motor cases or the clutch was never open by me or the dealer.

My only issue now is the broken pins in the clutch basket, the cost of the basket and the sprocket in the back are 600 euro without labour, i expect KTM to bare this costs.

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by jhalfhide » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:42 am

limeyduffa wrote:Hi Elvis,

(these guys ride their bikes much more harder than SMT owners)
Not entirely accurate Image



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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by limeyduffa » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:24 am

Good on you Elvis. Keep us informed. This is a serious safety hazard you have unearthed in my opinion. KTM need to sort this sh@t out. You could've had a catastrophic off (180km/h lock up !) and possibly nobody would have known what caused your death, and the police investigation would have concluded the default cause: riding beyond your limit.

The only thing I can think that will give them the argument to renege is if you changed the rev limiter settings, as there would be greater centrifugal stresses on the gear at high revs, but that would be really picky since Kev's maps only increase the revs by 250RPM, which is insignificant in my opinion assuming the engineers do a standard 10% margin like they do in electrical design.

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Zombie Master » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:00 am

I thing the location of the holes in relation to the fitting cut out is a mistake.

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by Elvis » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:22 pm

limeyduffa wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:24 am
Good on you Elvis. Keep us informed. This is a serious safety hazard you have unearthed in my opinion. KTM need to sort this sh@t out. You could've had a catastrophic off (180km/h lock up !) and possibly nobody would have known what caused your death, and the police investigation would have concluded the default cause: riding beyond your limit.

The only thing I can think that will give them the argument to renege is if you changed the rev limiter settings, as there would be greater centrifugal stresses on the gear at high revs, but that would be really picky since Kev's maps only increase the revs by 250RPM, which is insignificant in my opinion assuming the engineers do a standard 10% margin like they do in electrical design.
I live near the highway with a stretch of 30km without speed limit then it goes down to 130km so i dont need to rev like crazy in order to reach high speed.

Although i did ride fast, i shift gears at mid range and not even close to red line

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by limeyduffa » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:28 pm

Lucky you. Unfortunately, the cops here are all over us riders like sh*t on a blanket. If we go 2km/h over the limit (they call this "creeping"), we are putting people's lives in danger.

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by jhalfhide » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Creeps do usually end up raping/killing their prey so I think the cop is right to step on it now


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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by limeyduffa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:03 am

It's to do with drivers slowly increasing (creeping) their speed to either get past cars in multi lane traffic or bet the lights.

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Re: Drop in oil pressure during high speed running.

Post by motoyoyo » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:52 am

Elvis, is it possible that the clutch basket nut had become loose? Just a thought, but this could have led to the gear becoming partially disengaged causing a massive side load on it as it got jammed by the driven gear on the oil pump. That certainly could have snapped the gear in half. Have you checked the oil pump to make sure it rotates freely? Usually not a lot of torque required to spin an oil pump up to pressure. I'm just trying to see if there may have been another cause for the gear to have experienced that much load to break it in half.

BTW, I agree with jhalfhide that the SMT can be just as spirited a ride as the Superdukes. I own both an SMT and an SDR and the SMT can definitely be ridden just as fast or faster in some situations. Love them both.
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