Throttle Body Balance

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motoyoyo
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Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:53 pm

I just installed a Rottweiler air filter and SAS block off on my 2010 SMT. Since there are not very many US participants in the TuneEcu thread, I just started off with the 2011 Akra map to see how it felt. The bike already had Akra slipons without baffles. The Akra map actually worked really well with all the mods, compared to the stock map with just Akra slipons. So much more power, and smoother transitions.

However, there had always been some vibration above 5k rpms, so I took a look at the throttle body balance using my two stick manometer. It was pretty far off, so I adjusted the linkage and brought it up to level. After a test ride, the vibrations were not improved and may have even been worse.

I searched this site as well as the factory service manual, but there was not much info on the actual balancing procedure. I have not removed the secondary butterflies, and I noticed the Akra map still uses them in its tuning map. So, with this map, my secondaries are still in play. My question is, can the throttle bodies actually be balanced properly if the secondary butterflies are almost closed at idle?

I would think that the factory tuning procedure includes an electronic override of the secondaries to keep them fully open while the throttle body balance readings are taken. Just curious if I may have the way off right now due to the Akra map and secondaries in play. I supposed a solution would be to load another map with the secondaries at 100% all the time and rebalance the TB's in TuneEcu.
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

motoyoyo
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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:13 pm

Let me rephrase my question: How do you manually balance throttle bodies on a stock bike with the secondary butterflies in place? Wouldn't the secondaries being almost closed give a false reading to the balance?
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by Nordic09 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:34 pm

Tune ecu worked for balancing. However, see my 2 years old thread about vibrations: check tightness of all engine bolts, clutch installation bolts inside, rear sprocket damped fixing points-change bolts and pushings if sprocket moves by hand, new fuel filter, and yes, take secondaries away and use one of Kev’s map. I did all of these, and vibrations are at good level. Well on wknd I retightened one motor bolt, and it helped instantly. Using ALot of loctite and torque wrench 2 years back paid off, and only one place started get loose after 8000 kms. Earlier, when vibration was horrible, it had only 20000 kms in clocks, would see same happening to others as well with a vibrant vtwin.
KTM SMT 2010 (Rottweiler and map in, secondaries, SAS and O2 off)
Ducati Multistrada S 2011
ex Triumph Street Triple R 2013 (too little torque)
ex Triumph Street Triple R 2011 (stolen)
ex Honda CR125 1989
ex Suzuki RG125 1985
ex Yamaha YZ80 1987

motoyoyo
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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:39 am

Thanks for your input. I am going through those suggestions one by one.

I am also getting more familiar with TuneEcu, and realized that if I want to try a different map I'll have to remove the secondary flies. I find it odd that I can get a .hex map for my 990 SDR with secondaries at 100% open (not removed), but there are no similar maps for the more touring oriented SMT. For the SMT it seems it is either all stock or all race, and nothing in between. Anyway, I'll get it sorted by patiently going through everything.
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

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limeyduffa
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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by limeyduffa » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:15 pm

Any reason why you couldn't use the 990 SD map on your 990 SMT ? (provided you follow all the mods associated with that SD map)

motoyoyo
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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:48 pm

limeyduffa wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:15 pm
Any reason why you couldn't use the 990 SD map on your 990 SMT ? (provided you follow all the mods associated with that SD map)
Actually, I have never heard of anyone attempting to crossbreed maps between different species of KTM. It might be possible if I had a Dynojet V5 and Autotune to massage a different base map between bikes. I do know the 990 SDR is quite different from the standard 990SD and SMT. All three take different Dynojet V5 modules. In fact Dynojet doesn't even make one for the SDR. I will discuss further in the TuneEcu thread.
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by limeyduffa » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:39 am

Ok. I assumed everything (ie: cam shafts and exhaust plumbing) would be the same. I doubt bore, piston, valves would be different ?. You could verify this by comparing models on the fiche.

http://www.ktmonlineparts.com.au/partFi ... #component

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:43 am

The standard 990SD and the 990SMT share the same throttle body and probably most other engine parts, but the 990SDR does not. Throttle bodies, cams, ignition and exhaust valves are different on the SDR.

I am going to try loading one of the existing SMT maps for secondary flies removed and just set my secondaries at 100% and leave them in. Should be close enough to give me a general idea what it should be like with the secondaries removed. I don't want to introduce another problem with actuator alignment if I were to remove the secondaries and shafts, and later put them back in.
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by limeyduffa » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:17 am

Regarding putting it back together, I just took heaps of photos to put everything exactly back how it was. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but I would have thought the 15 min reset would have "zeroed" all the sensor readings.

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by motoyoyo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:44 am

Just wanted to follow up with an update to close out this thread. I solved my throttle body balance and vibration problem by uploading TuneEcu Jeff map #18 by Kev. I left my secondaries in and set them to 100% open across the whole range. I added 2% fuel from 1800-5000 rpm just to be safe. Very occasional pop on decel and still 35-38 mpg at medium to hard acceleration.

After the 15 minute reset, I was able to easily balance the throttle bodies manually as well as verify with TuneEcu. Much easier to balance with the secondaries wide open. The bike runs great now. Thanks to Kev and everyone that has contributed to the tuning maps. What an awesome bike this has become.
2010 990SMT, 2008 990SDR, 2007 S2R1000, BMW R1100S

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by Magic Wand » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am

'motoyoyo'

Thank's a lot man!
Great that you took your time to share the experiences so that other members 'know how to' if/when they need to do the some surgery :)

/M
-

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Re: Throttle Body Balance

Post by limeyduffa » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:20 am

Where's the like button ?. Well done Motoyoyo :D

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