SMT to GS?

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by sabestian » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:53 pm

But I believe that we are all talking about the new GS LC.
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by passiv » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:04 am

even the old gs (2010) had 115Nm which is still 15 more than smt. (if torque is what matters)
and the mentioned old gs dry weight = 203kg, smt dry weight = 196kg...

as i said earlier - i have not ridden the gs.

what do you think makes such huge difference in 'rider engagement', 'fun factor', or i dont know what ? isnt it just the biased rider, stating that 'this is supermoto' and 'this is grandads moped' ?

or is it the character of smt, that makes you more engaged in such way that you have sore wrist coz you cant control the throttle, chain slap on every corner etc?

thanks for your input.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by sabestian » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:57 pm

It is the character, trust me. Numbers say nothing in this case. Old GS can be ridden fast but it just doesn't love it, you will automatically slow down soon (the new LC one at least does not complain, it follows). SMT on the other hand can be ridden peacefully but it wants to go faster, keeps asking "is that all you've got?". :lol:
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by jhalfhide » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:01 pm

Like sticking a small engine in a caterham car chassis. It's more about 'feel' than numbers.


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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Nordic09 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:03 pm

Have to agree, that LC GS did feel like a diesel compared to SMT, not revving or wheelying too easily, and also bike felt much heavier and slower on slow speed quick turns etc.. Would be perfect for long distance driving, but did not ask city or fast small roads driving. Probably you have to get use to its size, but SMT felt really manoveurable at first ride. The new GS rallye model looks very nice, but still felt top heavy and the price.. New 1090R would be the choice if I would put more money into bike - that looks good in paper and also in reality!
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by passiv » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:32 pm

thats funny, because i wouldn't expect the gs to be top heavy as it has the engine planted at the bottom.
I have to test ride one this summer.

check this one, the white wheel stripes make it look so much better
Image

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by sabestian » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:10 pm

Adventure has huge tank plus it is super high. Different bike, really.
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by jhalfhide » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Wouldn't mind a slightly bigger tank on the SMT though... would be nice to just get an extra 35-40 odd miles. before reserve.
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by passiv » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:19 am

sabestian wrote:Adventure has huge tank plus it is super high. Different bike, really.
nobody denies that :)

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Nordic09 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:31 pm

Since owning 2 superlight street triples I've been comparing the feeling just standing in the saddle with both legs in ground and shaking the bike from the bars side to side. Somehow SMT feels light by this even if it is 30kgs heavier than triumphs. Actually only Ducati hypermotard 1100 has been clearly lighter feeling. I did the same for new gs rallye and it was not light. Been riding only 2016 gsa, but at low speed it is like cruising with a yacht in tight harbour.

When driving (car) last summer in northern Italy, 90% of the passing 40 - 50 bikes were lc gs, so there has to be also lot of good things in it. When turning to 60 y's old it must be comfy :D
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:57 am

Had an 1100GS which, I suspect, is similar to the latest BMW GS in character, if not outright performance. In the end it's the character we fall for, or come to hate. These days one kind of bike isn't necessarily better than another. They are all pretty reliable, drink fuel like it was 1960 and have more power than most can use on the road.

SMT nutter firecracker with a very raw character and not much creature comfort or civility. The KTM makes you ride crazy because it's so miserable to ride it slowly.

I cannot emphasise this effect of character sufficiently. The KTM is like a mouthful of red hot vindaloo, the BMW is a chicken dinner. It's kind of what you want in your life, like something really spicy on occasion, or something tasty but easy to eat most of the time.

BMWs are sanitised, efficient and comfortable-KTMs are like the puppy that pees all over the carpet and then eats the cushions. You will always have a blast on a KTM, but it will come with a degree of pain and anger. The BM will never put a foot wrong, it will do its business in the allotted place and be a faithful pet. The KTM is biting the postman and crapping on the carpet; it just cannot be ignored for all its pluses and all its minuses.

I'm a KTM addict now. It's taken two bikes and a lot of swearing to begin to appreciate why I like riding and why I want to ride. It is nothing to do with long rides in supreme comfort; it isn't about hyper performance that has the arms stretched like on a rack, nor the eyeballs banging off the inside of the visor. It's how the experience is delivered. If it makes you feel alive when you ride; when you come back home having never thought of anything thing but of the ride, then that's the right bike.

I don't want to spend my days on a bike on which I continually wonder just how much better it is than I am, nor one which lets me do simultaneous equations in my head, or worry about that report I should have finished. I want to be so knackered by the effort of the ride and adrenalised by the thrill of getting the most out of the bike that it feels like an accomplishment. I want to give the bike a little pat at the end of a ride, grin at it flaws and all and enjoy the fading glow of adrenaline over the next few hours.

That's not to say the KTM is better, or best, it's just best for my kind of tastes.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by passiv » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:20 pm

that was a very nice text to read... i think one needs both...

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Gimlet » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:05 pm

To be boring, anyone considering a GS should look at the Triumph 1200 Explorer - 2016 onwards. Its a completely different animal to the original 1200 Explorers and a very fine bike. Its not the most charismatic engine but its faster than current GS's and if anything even more comfortable and the chassis and WP semi-active suspension is as good as BMW's system. The Triumph is a genuine continent crosser if that's your thing. But both are adventure tourers. I'd have either for that purpose but neither as my only bike for doing everything.

Anyone seriously thinking about going from an SMT to a GS should only realistically be looking at the water-cooled GS from 2013 onwards. The old pre 2010 air-cooled and even to a lesser extent the oil-cooled 2011-13 bikes feel prehistoric by comparison. On the other hand the older GS's might be agricultural but they're immensely durable and capable of huge mileages. I've seen 1190 Gs's with 90,000 on the clock that look like they haven't done a quarter of that. I'm not sure the finish on the older ones wasn't better than the current bikes.
The 1190 Adv falls somewhere in between the SMT and the GS. Significantly faster than both, not as taut and light and fun-loving as the SMT but much closer to it in sportiness terms than the GS.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:58 pm

passiv wrote:that was a very nice text to read... i think one needs both...
I've been in that position. I had a St4s sports tourer and a naked monster. I took the practical bike with the characteristics of all Ducatis over the Monster despite its age and foibles. BMWs are always BMWs no matter what. So, a more practical newer KTM will have all the same character the SMT has. Same with the Triumph range-the explorer is similar to the street in character. I would go with the more practical bike if I had to do the distance - the emphasis on 'have' because, quite honestly, there isn't any need to do 500 mile days wanging down autobahns. A shorter distance on a fun bike is just as satisfying.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by ogden » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:18 pm

Thirdway wrote:BMWs are sanitised, efficient and comfortable-KTMs are like the puppy that pees all over the carpet and then eats the cushions.
The only BMW I've ever ridden is the S1000XR. It's definitely comfortable, and reasonably efficient, but I'm not sure I'd call it sanitised. It's going to get me in more trouble than the SMT was capable of - last time I had something this fruity was the gixer thou, and it was only by buying the XR that I was able to let go of the gixer. The SMT never let me pull 130mph wheelies in the rain!

That said, there's probably a reason I've never bothered even swinging a leg over a BMW R or K series. But the S is really something quite different.
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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:28 pm

ogden wrote:
Thirdway wrote:BMWs are sanitised, efficient and comfortable-KTMs are like the puppy that pees all over the carpet and then eats the cushions.
The only BMW I've ever ridden is the S1000XR. It's definitely comfortable, and reasonably efficient, but I'm not sure I'd call it sanitised. It's going to get me in more trouble than the SMT was capable of - last time I had something this fruity was the gixer thou, and it was only by buying the XR that I was able to let go of the gixer. The SMT never let me pull 130mph wheelies in the rain!

That said, there's probably a reason I've never bothered even swinging a leg over a BMW R or K series. But the S is really something quite different.
The S1000XR is effortless at producing power, the SMT is a tractor by comparison. For me the tractor wins, I'm struggling to make sense of a ballistic missile, but it's an efficient machine in comparison to the MX on the road feel of the SMT. It's really the rawness, peculiarities and faults that make it an engaging ride. I don't mean that BMW make tame bikes, far from it, but they engineer out the things that annoy most riders in order to produce something more perfect. I would scare myself stupid on a bike with 160bhp and perfect throttle response, but I enjoy myself stupid on something far less powerful and more difficult to ride well.

I used to read people saying things as I have said above and think of it as excuses for buying a not very good bike, but there is a point in life where having the latest and greatest just seems like an exercise in pure hedonism. No sooner have you put new tyres on the bike, then the manufacturer has brought out a new, improved model with more power, better brakes, more gadgets etc. Once out of that game, then it no longer matters what comes out of the manufacturers. I'm not as good as the bikes they produce, so it's wasted on me. I want a daft 3 or 4 hours of cooking the tyre edges on roads that the majority of riders ignore and having a ball doing it. I could do it on a GS or a fireblade, but I wouldn't get anything more out of it except an easier time doing it.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Gimlet » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:49 pm

I couldn't live with the XR because its an I/L four and they leave me cold, all of them, I'm not singling out the XR.
All the big power adventure bikes (ditto big sports bikes, supernakes etc) are much of a muchness in terms of speed but the way they produce it is very different and I just find all I/L fours anodyne. The cross-plane Yam is probably my favourite if I had to choose but I'd pick a V-twin over a four every time. Each to their own. Variety is the spice etc.

I do want a good chassis though. I don't mind having to work it but I want to be rewarded for doing so. The XR has, or had, the class-leading chassis IMO but from what I've sampled of it the 1290S is its equal. They are both 10/10. Having said that, the Explorer is 9.8/10. Its that good. Its a night and day improvement on the old bike and definitely up there with the very best (all three of those bikes are I think better than the Multistrada in terms of handling). When I rode it my SMT after the Triumph it actually felt heavier and slower in the steering, though flat, taut, light, stable and utterly raggable. Its 10/10 too in its own way but its a different way to the others.
That's the thing, the latest tech can deliver stunning handling but it can only disguise weight, it can't magic it away and there's no mistaking the difference when riding a bike that hasn't got the weight to start with and doesn't need the tech to manage it.

The GS (current model) I would say is 9/10 for handling. Its capable but lacks the reflexes of the SMT or the feedback of the above bikes.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Interesting about the Explorer-it always was pretty good, I just disliked its top heaviness at slow speed, the SMT felt like a pedal cycle at a standstill. Nice engine, good equipment and not a bad price either.

Like you I prefer a V twin; trickier to ride but more involving. Love starting it up on a morning. :D

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by CatDaddysBBQ » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:08 pm

I haven't ridden a NEW GS, but assuming the character hasn't changed drastically, I would not be able to do it.

I came to my SMT from a v-twin sportbike, and I needed as much of a rowdy snarly eager engine as possible. The SMT JUST fits the bill. The GS is... like the boring A- student that on paper does everything really well, nearly perfect at everything but always leaves me a bit underwhelmed on a character basis.

It's a bike I recommend, a bike I admire, one I respect and absolutely would never turn anybody away from one. However, I need a bit more of a troublemaker personality so I don't know that any of the BMW twins will work for me coming from a KTM.

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Re: SMT to GS?

Post by ogden » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:16 pm

Thirdway wrote:I would scare myself stupid on a bike with 160bhp and perfect throttle response
I was the same when I first got my gixer thou. It's amazing what you can get used to - by the time I was done with it, it'd got a TRE, I'd lowered the gearing, added a quickshifter, and still wanted something faster. Though I was only really using it on a track by them, as it was just impractical for the road.

The XR is basically the same weapon, but practical too. Not that I think it's a perfect replacement for the SMT - the XR is a sportsbike on stilts, the SMT is basically like someone shoved a litre engine in a BMX for a laugh. And when I bought the SMT, I was looking for the same thing as you - something that wouldn't be quite as sharp, and would let me dick about at something far closer to legal speeds. If anything, the 640 Duke I had before it was even better for that, especially on crappy little back roads, but it was tedious for the bit between home and those crappy roads.

Either way, the GS. Meh. I just don't get 'em.
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