Is it just me or?

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xaotikos
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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by xaotikos » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:23 pm

Cicsy wrote:Gimlet it seems to me you have went to a great deal of trouble to get the most from this bikes suspension. I wonder if you could save me a lot of time and agro by sending me a pm of your exact settings?
It would be nice if you could post your settings here :)

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Gimlet » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:57 pm

I'll put them up if you like but the sag figures were set for me (13.5 stone). Ideally each rider should have it set specifically for them.
These are also base settings. They've been tweaked for tyre, load and riding style changes. Treat them as a starting point but the sag must be set correctly first.

Here you go:

FRONT:

Preload:
Range............ 10 full turns.
Setting ...........7.5

High Speed Compression: - NA

Low speed compression:
Range..............33 clicks
Setting.............12

Rebound:
Range..............31 clicks
Setting.............12


REAR:

Preload:
Range.......200 mm fee length spring
Setting ......14 mm preload on spring

High speed compression:
Range.........3 full turns
Setting........1
1
Low speed compression:
Range........28 clicks
Setting.......10

Rebound:
Range........20 clicks
Setting.......10


SAG (mm):

Static:
Front - 36
Rear - 11

Rider:
Front - 49
Rear - 41


Since this set up I changed tyres from Dunlop Roadsmart IIs to Metzeler M7RRs and added 1 click of compression at both ends and another 2 mm of preload on the spring.

Mine is a 2010 which didn't have a preload adjuster fitted. Unless you've got the later model with the adjuster fitted as standard trying to accurately adjust rear preload with a C spanner is a pain and next to impossible. I dismantled the shock and fitted the Powerparts perload adjuster before attempting the set-up.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by sabestian » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:37 pm

@Cicsy
My thoughts exactly, I described it all in my huge welcome post. The bike feels like Mazda MX-5, Toyota GT86 or the like, light and relatively low powered cars that you fall in love even though they are no muscle cars. Saying that I fitted all the power mods that Kev came up with and first tests are very promissing! :twisted:

@Gimlet
I find Your SMT feel description spot on. And thanks for sharing your susp settings, I happen to be the same weight, can't wait to try them.
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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Cicsy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:55 pm

Gimlet is the 13.5 stone including full riding gear ? I'm not too far off that weight ( last I looked anyway) but I'd expect to be closer to 15 or more by the time I'm suited up . In any case thanks for posting that's helpful, and yes I've somebody local who's quite handy with the bouncy stuff so i might just give him a visit using your data as a guide.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Gimlet » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:02 pm

It was certainly with leathers and boots on etc - I rode it to the workshop - but probably not the lid. Feels perfect though.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by xaotikos » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:51 pm

Gimlet thanks for writing your settings.
I'm not too far away from that however I'm weighting more than you and that is the reason I believe I have gone to different preload settings.
I've had my suspension set up by a professional while had them serviced.
He didn't actual spend any time for setting sag with me on and that created some thoughts about his willingness to set this thing up correctly. So I started from there and start fiddling..

My weight is 105 with gear, this is around 16.5 rocks? :lol:
Running M7rr also.

My settings now:
Front
forks raised ~6mm on triple clamp
Preload 6 turns CCW from full
Rider sag: 54mm
Comp: 13
Reb: 12


Rear
Preload 6 turns CW with adjuster. This is one more turn from Ktm's full load. In mm should be ~10mm?
Rider sag: 55mm
high comp: 1 turn
slow comp: 13
rebound: 10

This is a nice setup, however a bit stiff for back road and potholes. It's a bit wallowing in speeds above 180km but I believe I'm creating that (bigger body, more air resistance, more input on tha bars).
Last edited by xaotikos on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by xaotikos » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:14 pm

Gimlet, just a clarification.
is the front preload 7.5 CCW from fully in OR CW from fully out?

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Gimlet
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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Gimlet » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:58 pm

All figures for clicks and turns refer to the number of clicks or full turns outwards (anticlockwise) from a fully wound in position.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by xaotikos » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:40 am

That makes sense, thanks

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by jhalfhide » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:39 am

I'm running factory sports settings and love it. Rode to work yesterday and the ride home was spirited to say the least. Absolutely love this bike since I've done SAS removal and new airbox and map. I'm even happy with my lighting now I have an aux light hooked to main beam. Only improvement for me would be to stop the back end wagging around when braking really hard and downshifting.

My new offices even have desk adjacent parking [THUMBS UP SIGN]Image


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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Gimlet » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:46 pm

A skittery tail under heavy braking sound like insufficient static sag.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by jhalfhide » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:12 pm

Gimlet wrote:A skittery tail under heavy braking sound like insufficient static sag.
I've tried increasing rider weight... is that not the way to go [FRENCH FRIES][DOUGHNUT]


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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Cicsy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:20 pm

I suppose a lot of it depends on how you ride the thing too. The previous owner of my bike mentioned it was all on sport settings when he bought it and he felt it "all wrong" in corners but perfect for him on the softest settings.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:25 pm

Mines a 2012. I'm told it has a stronger rear Spring? All preload off at the rear and a touch at the front to get both ends working the same.

F compression damping fully wound out 33 clicks
Rebound 5 clicks out ( way beyond the sport setting which is 15 clicks)
R low speed comp 21 clicks
High speed fully out 3 1/4 turns
Rebound 9 clicks out ( 1 click further out than sport).

These bikes need a lot of rebound damping or they will bounce about on braking and bumps. They don't need compression or it locks up the forks and can make it under steer out of turns.

I'm around 12 stone. Bike set up by Reactive suspension in York.

Tyres: Now on M7RR which are fantastic. I had PR3 originally but they made the bike sluggish and woolly when leant to the edge of the tyre. I think this is what's meant by needing to bully it. If the bike isn't sitting properly and throttle control is a bit hesitant, then the PR3s feel like they are pushing against the rider constantly.

One thing I now know. The suspension is really plush, but the throttle and dynamics aren't. It can make the bike feel like a camel with just a bit of lag on the throttle- just a minute amount of closure when hitting a bump mid corner can really upset things. I happened to be coming down the long cobbled street of Alston in second gear and got a false neutral when I braked and went down a gear as a car started pulling out. In neutral, on a fairly steep cobbled road, the bike soaked up the awful surface like a proper MX bike. Yet, in gear it was twatting about like it was on track suspension. The answer to riding this thing is good throttle control and the tachometer with at least 5K on it at all times. Get it below 5K and its OK but doesn't feel poised. 5/6K and its planted with just enough revs left to scream out of the turn.

Now I'm used to it, except on fast, open 100mph plus roads, it's brilliant. At higher speeds it's competent, but the buffeting and extra wind pressure can cause the same issues as at lower speeds, so, best to keep it this side of 100mph as it can wander when you really don't want it to-the reason why sports bikes feel so planted is everything is tucked in and the suspension has little movement, especially an I4 which is electric motor precise compared to the tractor in the SMT.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Cicsy » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:18 am

Thirdway wrote:Mines a 2012. I'm told it has a stronger rear Spring? All preload off at the rear and a touch at the front to get both ends working the same.

F compression damping fully wound out 33 clicks
Rebound 5 clicks out ( way beyond the sport setting which is 15 clicks)
R low speed comp 21 clicks
High speed fully out 3 1/4 turns
Rebound 9 clicks out ( 1 click further out than sport).

These bikes need a lot of rebound damping or they will bounce about on braking and bumps. They don't need compression or it locks up the forks and can make it under steer out of turns.

I'm around 12 stone. Bike set up by Reactive suspension in York.

Tyres: Now on M7RR which are fantastic. I had PR3 originally but they made the bike sluggish and woolly when leant to the edge of the tyre. I think this is what's meant by needing to bully it. If the bike isn't sitting properly and throttle control is a bit hesitant, then the PR3s feel like they are pushing against the rider constantly.

One thing I now know. The suspension is really plush, but the throttle and dynamics aren't. It can make the bike feel like a camel with just a bit of lag on the throttle- just a minute amount of closure when hitting a bump mid corner can really upset things. I happened to be coming down the long cobbled street of Alston in second gear and got a false neutral when I braked and went down a gear as a car started pulling out. In neutral, on a fairly steep cobbled road, the bike soaked up the awful surface like a proper MX bike. Yet, in gear it was twatting about like it was on track suspension. The answer to riding this thing is good throttle control and the tachometer with at least 5K on it at all times. Get it below 5K and its OK but doesn't feel poised. 5/6K and its planted with just enough revs left to scream out of the turn.

Now I'm used to it, except on fast, open 100mph plus roads, it's brilliant. At higher speeds it's competent, but the buffeting and extra wind pressure can cause the same issues as at lower speeds, so, best to keep it this side of 100mph as it can wander when you really don't want it to-the reason why sports bikes feel so planted is everything is tucked in and the suspension has little movement, especially an I4 which is electric motor precise compared to the tractor in the SMT.



I haven't managed to get out on mine as much as I'd like due to work and other such distractions. As a result I've not been able to get the suspension tweaked to suit myself and therefor consider my set up far from perfect.

What I have noticed is that same sweet spot around the 5K mark in the rev range you refer to. It's very evident and it turns into a different animal around here. She just loves to be caned here on up and held there spining until the next corner. There is grunt lower down although not the massive amounts which I'd usually associate with a twin. What's obvious already to me is this bike just loves to be thrashed and she simply squirts from corner to corner when you hold that throttle open.

Having owned a few litre sports bike in my time I've always scoffed at this notion of "would embarrass a sports bike" but even I would admit it feels every bit as quick over some sections of my favourite roads.

Maybe that's the secret to this thing , get it in the zone and it makes you feel as enthralled as anything else out there even if in reality you're maybe not covering the distance just as quickly as Mr fireblade.

I can't wait to get my new tyres on and the suspension tuned to unlock that extra 10% of potential this bike has yet to give.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Thirdway » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:37 pm

Yeah, don't go looking for firebirds. Sports bikes with a half decent rider will eat the KTM on the average road, but so what ? Once in the frame of mind that it's a competition then you may as well go buy the fireblade. It will be faster, smoother, better braked and more stable at speed. On most of the roads where the KTM is most fun, there will be a definite dearth of sports bikes. However, I have ever such a big grin on some of the sports bike play grounds with the majority of poor riders - it's a massive hoot to rock and roll the SMT through a series of tight flip flops and then pass a superbike, even more fun when the roads are wet. A blade passing me at warp speed on an A road doesn't even need to try that hard, I would do it if I had a blade, but I would constantly be thinking of blue lights and other people who struggle to react to a 130mph missile in time. It's really a race track thing unless you have the kind of will to ride it like a KTM, but then where's the fun.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by limeyduffa » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:57 am

Gimlet wrote:I'll put them up if you like but the sag figures were set for me (13.5 stone).
Hi Gimlet. Good on you for posting your settings :). They are no good to me, but they are very interesting. Did your tuner give you any explanation for the front pretension ? (I would expect that to be set to 2). The reason I ask is- when I tinker, I found that the settings aren't drastically different from the manufactures recommended settings (this is for both my old 990 SD and my current). When I first got my SMT (after the major weight reduction with the cans), I explored all settings over a two year period. I found that the default sports setting was the best. After your post, it makes me wonder if I should try expanding my variations. I must admit, most f my experimentation was on my SD.

Thirdway: Our roads are so shit here, anything other than a Fireblade will blow away a Fireblade. I really don't know why people bother buying sports bikes here.

Cicsy: Kev's 10mm lowering the front end makes a bigger difference to cornering. I highly recommend it.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by jmh » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:08 pm

Preload should be set relating to rider weight to get sag in the right place. Around 1/3 of full travel.

I have my front sag at 50mm. So 160mm-50mm=90mm of fork showing when sat on, with gear.
For me this is 1&3/4 turns of preload.

My settings found through trial and error are pretty close to those listed by gimlet, but I have a slighltly higher viscocity oil in the front forks, which changes damping a bit.

And mine handles on rails.

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Re: Is it just me or?

Post by Thirdway » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:38 pm

limeyduffa wrote:
Gimlet wrote:I'll put them up if you like but the sag figures were set for me (13.5 stone).
Hi Gimlet. Good on you for posting your settings :). They are no good to me, but they are very interesting. Did your tuner give you any explanation for the front pretension ? (I would expect that to be set to 2). The reason I ask is- when I tinker, I found that the settings aren't drastically different from the manufactures recommended settings (this is for both my old 990 SD and my current). When I first got my SMT (after the major weight reduction with the cans), I explored all settings over a two year period. I found that the default sports setting was the best. After your post, it makes me wonder if I should try expanding my variations. I must admit, most f my experimentation was on my SD.

Thirdway: Our roads are so shit here, anything other than a Fireblade will blow away a Fireblade. I really don't know why people bother buying sports bikes here.

Cicsy: Kev's 10mm lowering the front end makes a bigger difference to cornering. I highly recommend it.
We have an ex mx rider in our little ride out club-he rides a standard street triple and can go an awful lot faster than I dare to on the KTM when the road gets particularly bumpy. It doesn't seem to bother him. On a particular bumpy stretch he was well over a ton - I think around 120mph and the KTM was properly bucking and wandering to the extent I was forced to slow. The SMT seems to handle pot holes and big bumps at slow speed, but it's hair raising at high speeds as the steering gets askew with the throttle getting bumped on and off-like a fairground ride. If I could pin the throttle so I didn't touch it, then it would be better, but I don't fall for it being better than sports bikes on bad roads.

However- off road it's a beauty. For a big heavy twin it's seriously well balanced and rides the berms and ridges like a trail bike half the weight. Very impressive. During a shortish stint on some pretty tough farm track I was with lads on GS and Tiger. Despite my initial hesitation I soon got the hang of it and overtook all of the others by crossing the big grass hump in the middle of the track -about 24" high in places. All on road tyres ! To think it can do that, then scratch well enough to keep up, or overtake some sports riders, then do a half decent job of distance-impressive really. Everyone should try it off road on some reasonable easy rough track-they will get a very pleasant suprise.its like a duck to water.

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